WikiLeaked: Over 11,000 messages from private WikiLeaks chat released

“Objectivity is short-hand for not having a significant pre-conceived agenda, eliding facts the audience would be interested in, or engaging in obvious falsehoods.” ~ WikiLeaks

Presented below are over 11,000 messages from the WikiLeaks + 10 chat, from which only excerpts have previously been published.

The chat is presented nearly in its entirety, with only a handful redactions made to protect the privacy and personal information of innocent, third parties as well as the already public name of an individual who has sent hate mail, made legal threats and who the source for the DMs considers a threat. It is at the request of the source that Mark’s full name is redacted, leaving only his first name and his initials (which he specified is alright). Though MGT’s full name is already public and easily discoverable, the source’s wishes are being respected. Beyond this individual, the redactions don’t include any information that’s relevant to understanding WikiLeaks or their activities.

The chat log shows WikiLeaks’ private attitudes, their use of FOIA laws, as well as discussions about WikiLeaks’ lobbying and attempts to “humiliate” politicians, PR and propaganda efforts (such as establishing a “medium term truth” for “phase 2”), troll operations, attempts to engineer situations where WikiLeaks would be able to sue their critics, and in some instances where WikiLeaks helped direct lawsuits filed by third parties or encouraged criminal investigations against their opponents. In some instances, the chats are revealing. In others, they show a mundane consistency with WikiLeaks’ public stances. A few are provocative and confounding.

The extract below was created using DMArchiver, and is presented as pure text to make it easier to search and to provide as much metadata as possible (i.e. times as well as dates). The formatting is presented as-is, and shows users’ display names rather than their twitter handles. (Note: Emmy B is @GreekEmmy, not the author.)

CW: At various points in the chat, there are examples of homophobia, transphobia, ableism, sexism, racism, antisemitism and other objectionable content and language. Some of these are couched as jokes, but are still likely to (and should) offend, as a racist or sexist jokes doesn’t cease to be racist or sexist because of an expected or desired laugh. Attempts to dismiss of these comments as “ironic” or “just trolling” merely invites comparisons to 4chan and ironic nazis. These comments, though offensive, are included in order to present as full and complete a record as possible and to let readers judge the context, purpose and merit of these comments for themselves.

Since publication, Mary (she/her), the source of the DMs, has publicly come out as trans. It was in part due to her first hand experiences with the transphobia and sexism in the chats that Mary chose to leak the archive and make it public.


[2015-05-01 13:52:11] <noll> group Dm on Wls related trolls activity, incoming events & general topics.

[2015-05-01 13:53:39] <WikiLeaks> There’s a race on now to ‘spoil’ our new submission system beta.

[2015-05-01 13:55:02] <WikiLeaks> Greenberg, who palled up with the openleaks people, launched an attack on wired. Annoying if that framing starts to spread. Verge…

[2015-05-01 13:55:53] <WikiLeaks> ..stripped the hostility. We’re putting out a statement to soon. The interplay will be surprised by the election in the UK and the weekend.

[2015-05-01 13:56:03] <WikiLeaks> suppressed.

[2015-05-01 14:01:26] <noll> yes, both Wired & Verge contained DDB’s line of attack. how anyone could fall for OL says it all. expect submissions portal will face –

[2015-05-01 14:02:37] <noll> – cyber attacks. must be one of, if not the most scrutinized area of cyberspace atm.

[2015-05-01 14:03:55] <WikiLeaks> Greenberg is a partisan. Fraudulent to quote the narrative of such people without mentioning the OpenLeaks vaporware plot.

[2015-05-01 14:29:48] <noll> [Tweet] the OL ‘quote’ manages to contradict itself w/i three lines. which seems indicative of DDB.

[2015-05-01 14:32:09] <WISE Up Action> Hi all. More comfortable discussing stuff in here to be honest.

[2015-05-01 14:37:33] <noll> hi Wise Up. good to see you. yep, agree.

[2015-05-01 14:40:49] <WikiLeaks> We will have a statement in 5mins

[2015-05-01 14:41:31] <WikiLeaks> The Next Web now is the most positive.

[2015-05-01 14:43:08] <WikiLeaks> @AnnieDarkhorse seems pretty reliable too

[2015-05-01 14:43:19] <LibertarianLibrarian> Glad to see all. I’ll pick up on the statement and RT. Hopefully, these attacks will fail spectacularly.

[2015-05-01 14:43:50] <noll> will add.

[2015-05-01 14:45:16] <WikiLeaks> @karwalski also

[2015-05-01 14:45:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> Agree re Annie. I’m corresponding with @voidiss, she’s solid adn enthusiastic, but she’s very young. Might let her keep picking up from me.

[DMConversationEntry] You added Matt Watt

[2015-05-01 14:47:22] <noll> we’re adding annie, & not much is happening..

[2015-05-01 14:48:41] <noll> Jen, agree.

[2015-05-01 14:52:46] <noll> Jen, could you try adding @AnnieDarkhorse?

[2015-05-01 15:07:29] <noll> any thoughts on whether @DouglasLucas would be interested?

[2015-05-01 15:11:02] <LibertarianLibrarian> I just tried to add Annie. Not sure if it did anything.

[2015-05-01 15:11:35] <WikiLeaks> See

[2015-05-01 15:12:21] <noll> we’re seeing this at top of group Dm window: “Darkhorse could not be added”. we’ve sent Dm asking her to check Dm settings.

[2015-05-01 15:12:47] <noll> Wls, will tweet out.

[2015-05-01 15:13:33] <WikiLeaks> DL’s a great guy, but prefer not to have journalists here. Too tempting for them to turn such conversations into a story.

[2015-05-01 15:16:15] <WISE Up Action> Ok to invite ‘Wales’

[2015-05-01 15:23:44] <noll> understand. / Action, Wales is invited, go to ‘View people’ which is under the: … top right.

[2015-05-01 15:24:37] <WikiLeaks> What’s Wales?

[2015-05-01 15:25:25] <noll> @WISEUpWales

[2015-05-01 15:25:55] <WikiLeaks> Definitely.

[2015-05-01 15:27:18] <LibertarianLibrarian> Tweeted out on

[2015-05-01 15:28:08] <WISE Up Action> H: ok cheers

[2015-05-01 15:28:21] <WISE Up Action> Night Jenny!

[2015-05-01 15:31:17] <noll> good night Jen :o)

[2015-05-01 15:51:46] <WikiLeaks> Someone tells us that DarkHorse doesn’t play with others, so perhaps not her.

[2015-05-01 15:56:59] <noll> understood, will drop it.

[2015-05-01 16:23:54] <Matt Watt> Hey, have shared the nextgen link. Assume this group is for distro of important links?

[2015-05-01 16:27:57] <WikiLeaks> Yes and advance notice of hostile twitter PR.

[2015-05-01 16:30:03] <Matt Watt> Ok sounds good.

[2015-05-01 16:49:45] <WikiLeaks> @SAWCSydney is also good

[2015-05-01 16:55:05] <noll> not sure we can add b/c they don’t follow us. can someone else?

[DMConversationEntry] M added SAWC Sydney

[2015-05-01 17:02:47] <Matt Watt> Sawcsydney is mainly automated tweets from their facebook page now, as is wikileaksparty. I will give Ian headsup re sawcsydney

[2015-05-01 17:11:03] <noll>

[2015-05-01 17:38:50] <noll> re “more publications – free trade deals”, TPP already feature of Sanders/ Clinton race, would be great to nudge campaigns into citing Wls.

[2015-05-01 17:44:56] <WikiLeaks> We’re doing well with TPP in US.

[2015-05-01 17:45:12] <noll> also, great article by Kellie Tranter:

[2015-05-01 17:48:57] <noll> yes. & looks like becoming major campaign issue w/ Clinton forced to follow Sanders lead “to neutralize him”:

[2015-05-01 17:50:25] <WikiLeaks> We don’t like tranter’s article, much. Poor rhetoric and all Assange traffic in the cables was moved to intel channels are a result of…

[2015-05-01 17:50:43] <WikiLeaks> …Dorlings constant FOIAs.

[2015-05-01 17:51:24] <WikiLeaks> It’s meant well, but she gives the enemies points, which there is no need to do, high up, then burries ours.

[2015-05-01 17:52:38] <WikiLeaks> e.g no need to faff about with grand jury to and fro. The US admits it, as of this year. End of argument.

[2015-05-01 17:53:44] <WikiLeaks> No need to go into muddying speculations about absense of evidence in Australian FOIAd cables. US admits it and recently.

[2015-05-01 17:54:36] <WikiLeaks> This ‘detailitis’ is a nasty disease that affects quite a few of our supporters and prevents them using the strongest point, straight up.

[2015-05-01 17:59:01] <noll> haha we thought ‘in case they leaked’. agree re Grand Jury, we love detail, but yep, it’s good to have the latest & strongest to hand, –

[2015-05-01 18:01:16] <noll> – speaking of which, last third of article implies Wls ended w/ Manning, rather than coming full circle, as seen today.

[2015-05-01 18:21:13] <noll> IoC’s Mapping Media Freedom including “cases of trolling & online abuse against journalists”:

[2015-05-01 18:32:26] <WikiLeaks> Yes. Committee to Project Journalsts (CPJ), which is HQ’d in NY, engages in detailing such horrors in Ecuador as cab drivers abusing…

[2015-05-01 18:33:03] <WikiLeaks> …journalists for being inaccurate sleaze bags thanks to Correa naming and shaming their articles.

[2015-05-01 18:34:39] <noll> sleaze bags – turn on Fox News & watch the ‘Mike’ interview.

[2015-05-01 18:36:28] <noll> think it’s reaching the end. on that basis CPJ should investigate Correspondents Dinner.

[2015-05-01 19:31:24] <noll> if this is end of cryptography, it’s getting closer:

[2015-05-02 05:52:25] <noll> Adrián Lamo posting random “this is not” legal advice for JA:

[2015-05-02 06:03:26] <Emmy B> Yes saw it, thank you! not sure I’d like to engage with that horrid individual in twitter.

[2015-05-02 06:04:33] <Emmy B> Going to Brighton tomorrow, will watch that comedy, see what it is all about, sent tweets to artist and asked permission to distribute

[2015-05-02 06:05:22] <Emmy B> supportive flyers, he was most encouraging, let’s see… I hope it will be a positive show 🙂

[2015-05-02 06:16:53] <noll> some clips of his work. looks good & yep, likely to be positive.

[2015-05-02 06:21:28] <Emmy B> *excited*

[2015-05-02 06:54:04] <Emmy B> Reading above ‘detailitis’ LOL making up words 😀

[2015-05-02 07:00:05] <noll> Em, still traces of yahoo group where it was invented:

[2015-05-02 07:06:32] <Emmy B> hahaha 🙂

[2015-05-02 07:07:14] <Emmy B> (let me not start on fwlf !!!)

[2015-05-02 08:16:12] <LibertarianLibrarian> Oh good grief, that WLF tweet is patently absurd. How can anyone take then seriously? I guess I constantly underestimate people’s stupidity.

[2015-05-02 08:16:30] <LibertarianLibrarian> Them

[2015-05-02 08:17:28] <LibertarianLibrarian> Enjoy the play, Emmy

[2015-05-02 08:19:08] <LibertarianLibrarian> Re Lamo, is anyone still talking or listening to that <bleep>?

[2015-05-02 08:20:36] <LibertarianLibrarian> Re the accusations about journalists in Ecuador, common attack, learned to ignore it. Correa is adored by his people & for good reason.

[2015-05-02 08:21:53] <LibertarianLibrarian> His division of media into private, public, state is very interesting. One thing I really like is that media corps can’t buy other business.

[2015-05-02 08:23:10] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’m a free market believer but we need media separate from those interests.

[2015-05-02 08:23:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> Hehe, we needed separation of press & state as well as separation of church & state.

[2015-05-02 08:25:17] <LibertarianLibrarian> Anyway, fascinated by what Correa’s doing in Ecuador.

[2015-05-02 09:09:53] <Emmy B> Been reading some Greek political articles also turn their eyes to Ecuador regarding restructuring media as well as the debt issue.

[2015-05-02 12:08:11] <WikiLeaks> It is a good time to spread Cameron, Osborne, Clegg, Milliband, Alex Salmond WL results. Try with “-stratfor” first

[2015-05-02 12:39:04] <noll> backup account still isn’t appearing in hashtags.

[2015-05-02 12:43:26] <noll> obviously stratfor flooding results is well know, is there no way to have it just show the end of email chains?

[2015-05-02 13:12:59] <WikiLeaks> No.

[2015-05-02 13:13:22] <WikiLeaks> You can sort by date, reverse, to send the end of the chain first in rhe results list, though.

[2015-05-02 13:54:38] <WISE Up Wales> Hi all. Can someone fill me in in 140 characters on the purpose of this group vs prev group and maybe benefits of this vs using IRC etc? Ta!

[2015-05-02 14:00:21] <noll> hi Wales, for various reasons prev group is not secure enough. re IRC, this is more convenient, & semi-protected by Twitters privacy rules.

[2015-05-02 14:12:27] <WISE Up Wales> OK, thanks H. Security issues were about who was on the list then?

Never quite know who you’re dealing with online I guess. I don’t, anyway!

[2015-05-02 15:09:15] <WikiLeaks> We can not assume that a twitter list is private. It’s more that there were a few trollish people on the previous list, which make

[2015-05-02 15:09:24] <WikiLeaks> having a useful conversation difficult.

[2015-05-02 15:34:56] <Emmy B> I appreciate having the list, I hope we can do better work supporting in twitter as a result.

[2015-05-02 15:35:13] <Emmy B> Goodnight everyone 🙂

[2015-05-02 16:43:45] <noll> [redacted ad hominem attack against an editor]

[2015-05-02 17:04:06] <noll> [redacted, third party information]

[2015-05-02 17:10:10] <noll> gossip columnist that can only see gossip, or same ‘nothing to see’ used on cablegate, whatever.

[2015-05-02 18:35:20] <WikiLeaks> Please see:

[2015-05-02 18:40:16] <noll>

[2015-05-02 19:24:31] <noll> looks like PR’s paycheck fishing, trying to draw CM into commenting.

[2015-05-03 00:14:41] <WISE Up Wales> Hmm, this is complicated, not least cos it’s not just artist [redacted, third party information] but also ‘the man behind the idea’ [redacted, third party information]

[2015-05-03 00:18:57] <WikiLeaks> Their statement is that its from the moment of heroism, which makes sense, since no-one recognizes anything else.

[2015-05-03 00:18:57] <WISE Up Wales> and [redacted, third party information] statement on the website (& a later short description) refers to “Bradley Chelsea Manning” which is not the best.

[2015-05-03 00:19:24] <WikiLeaks> Yes. They should fix that.

[2015-05-03 00:20:13] <WikiLeaks> Although, if they want to tour the statue accross localities that are conservative, it makes sense to not draw attention to the sex issue.

[2015-05-03 00:20:20] <WISE Up Wales> They probably wanted to avoid the issue being diverted off into trans-politics – ie Manning is in jail for the leaks not for being trans…

[2015-05-03 00:21:00] <WISE Up Wales> but unless there’s some acknowledgement, that’s going to happen anyway, thanks to [redacted, third party information] and suchlike.

[2015-05-03 00:22:13] <WikiLeaks> They probably thought Bradley Chelsea Manning was a good way of getting the popular name in, and the new one, and not getting diverted.

[2015-05-03 00:22:55] <WikiLeaks> But that’s going to happen regardless thanks to statist fake radicals.

[2015-05-03 00:23:17] <WISE Up Wales> Using “Chelsea (formerly known as Bradley) Manning” would be improvement. I think all the media i/vs with artist he’s referred to Brad & he.

[2015-05-03 00:23:59] <WikiLeaks> Why do you say you think that?

[2015-05-03 00:24:14] <WikiLeaks> Is that based on recent interviews you have seen?

[2015-05-03 00:24:55] <WISE Up Wales> Because I’ve only seen a few interviews and those referred to Bradley and he. Don’t have TV, don’t watch a lot of vid of news reports

[2015-05-03 00:25:47] <WISE Up Wales> but hope I’m wrong! It’s a big and ongoing problem. Can’t even start having a conversation about Manning’s situation without getting into..

[2015-05-03 00:26:01] <WikiLeaks> The gender issue really is vulgar.

[2015-05-03 00:27:08] <WikiLeaks> 35 years in prison is just fine, provided CM can be called a ‘she’ by the guards. Horror.

[2015-05-03 00:27:36] <WISE Up Wales> …the trans issues immediately. It’s a societal problem, how we place so much importance on gender. I just do what I can with it as it is.

[2015-05-03 00:28:47] <WISE Up Wales> Gender identity politics is a nightmare. & a gift to the state, unfortunately.

[2015-05-03 00:29:28] <WikiLeaks> Yes. Gender essentialism is regressive.

[2015-05-03 00:30:58] <WikiLeaks> The whole fight was to liberate people from essentialism and understand that gender is a matrix of many biological signaling paths and..

[2015-05-03 00:32:14] <WikiLeaks> …behaviors, each of which can have different strength accross individuals and societies.

[2015-05-03 00:35:04] <WISE Up Wales> There’s no liberation where the fight’s ended up: now we’ve ‘the cotton ceiling’ where blokes who say they feel like they’re women…

[2015-05-03 00:35:21] <WISE Up Wales> …possibly only part time, complain that lesbians won’t have sex with them!

[2015-05-03 00:35:53] <WikiLeaks> To do away with binary ‘he’, ‘she’ as a stultifying simplfication and look at their unique values, skills and behaviors as an individual.

[2015-05-03 00:35:57] <WISE Up Wales> Meantime, many men are now afraid to enter social centres around UK for fear of being attacked for their behaviour

[2015-05-03 00:36:42] <WISE Up Wales> Yeah, a gender neutral pronoun would be v helpful.

[2015-05-03 00:37:53] <WikiLeaks> “the prisoner” has worked well for judges in our experience.

[2015-05-03 00:38:40] <WikiLeaks> “Bring the prisoner in”. “What do you have to say, prisoner?”, etc.

[2015-05-03 00:39:01] <M> FYI, ‘Anything to Say’ put out a statement re Manning portrayal on original kickstarter (at bottom)

[2015-05-03 00:39:22] <WISE Up Wales> But we’re stuck with centuries of patriarchy too. The important thing is to build alliances between all those who are oppressed, not divide

[2015-05-03 00:40:27] <WikiLeaks> [redacted, third party information] A fake leftist, and a manipulative, predatory exhibitionist.

[2015-05-03 00:41:26] <WISE Up Wales> Indeed.

[2015-05-03 00:41:43] <WikiLeaks> Here:

[2015-05-03 00:44:47] <WISE Up Wales> That statement is helpful (is that posted by Vaughan Smith?) but I can’t see anything like it on

[2015-05-03 00:46:50] <WISE Up Wales> ‘The prisoner’ can work but you can’t write long pieces or talk to people on the street for long in that vein. Also, in my experience…

[2015-05-03 00:47:36] <WISE Up Wales> …it’s important to clarify Chelsea/Bradley – you have to do it – or people think there are more than one person. Happened loads of times

[2015-05-03 00:48:34] <WISE Up Wales> I think it’s easy to forget when you know the story but many ppl simply don’t, or only sketchiest details

[2015-05-03 00:48:36] <WikiLeaks> We were being sarcastic with ‘The Prisoner’, pointing to this radical discovery of gender neutrality by hang’em’high judges.

[2015-05-03 00:48:43] <WISE Up Action>

[2015-05-03 00:50:32] <WISE Up Wales> Sarcasm doesn’t travel easily on twitter! Or I’m slow! :o)

[2015-05-03 00:51:41] <WikiLeaks> Manning does have a Y chromosome and male genitalia. It’s anglo-centric to suggest that an Italian should move into the subjective frame.

[2015-05-03 00:52:18] <WikiLeaks> Doesn’t help with anglo-left audiences but it does demonstrate their provincialism.

[2015-05-03 00:54:20] <M> If Dormino had tried to create his own idea of what Manning would look as a female figure, he would have been attacked for that, too.

[2015-05-03 00:56:27] <WikiLeaks> Yes. And it would have turned off audiences in most countries.

[2015-05-03 00:57:56] <WikiLeaks> But they do need a little subpage to say how they’ve been in contact with the manning camp so people can shutup the idiots with it.

[2015-05-03 01:02:21] <WISE Up Action> Agree M and Wls

[2015-05-03 01:03:02] <M> Agreed. Preferably sooner so they can kick it in the can before people pick it up and make a big hubbub about it.

[2015-05-03 01:08:09] <WISE Up Action> Think it’s clear that the artwork is from a ‘historical’ perspective. Dormino shouldn’t need to explain, but if he did clarify this…

[2015-05-03 01:08:42] <WISE Up Action> Would nullify the gender debate

[2015-05-03 01:09:42] <WikiLeaks> The ‘historical’ aspect is explicity mentioned on the site.

[2015-05-03 01:10:03] <WISE Up Wales> “The sculpture will show Chelsea Manning at the time when the facts took place.

This is also motivated by the fact that the artist could not

[2015-05-03 01:10:15] <WISE Up Wales> get enough portraits of her actual look to make a realistic portrait.

All we are doing is to try and keep alive the public interest on this

[2015-05-03 01:10:31] <WISE Up Wales> story. The story of three courageous persons. One women and two men.”

[2015-05-03 01:12:02] <WISE Up Wales> But the 2nd sentence is bullshit. ‘Actual look’ would be meaningless in the context of this sculpture.

[2015-05-03 01:13:25] <WISE Up Wales> Yeah, they could really do with the approval of CM to quote to detractors.

[2015-05-03 01:13:50] <WikiLeaks> Her ‘actual’ look is the same as the look of the statue, anyway.

[2015-05-03 01:15:57] <WikiLeaks> Did you notice @xychelsea dissing the Baltimore protesters?

[2015-05-03 01:16:38] <WikiLeaks> “I know deep down that this is not the answer #BaltimoreRiots”

[2015-05-03 01:17:42] <WikiLeaks> She’s going to have to be careful with this new public face. It may well be a mistake.

[2015-05-03 01:18:18] <M> I’ve been a bit disappointed by the feed. I think her articles are a lot more powerful/interesting than her twitter feed.

[2015-05-03 01:18:25] <WikiLeaks> Before everyone could project what they wanted onto her.

[2015-05-03 01:19:02] <M> And there’s been a lot of suspicion about the way the account is handled. She has confirmed it’s her, but re how tweets/replies are relayed.

[2015-05-03 01:19:50] <WikiLeaks> Yes. There’s likely some not altogether bright “PR advice” from Fitzgibbeon on the statements.

[2015-05-03 01:20:20] <WikiLeaks> The retweets are nearly all Fitzgibbon clients.

[2015-05-03 01:26:29] <WISE Up Action> G, yeah think they could lose that second sentence and the statement would be stronger. Would be enough to rebut criticism.

[2015-05-03 01:29:49] <WISE Up Action> Agree CM camp need to be careful with PR people coming in, picking up narrative.

[2015-05-03 02:15:46] <Emmy B> Ultimately a piece of art speaks by itself. Because it is public art it is there calling for discussion. The narrative ok could do with a

[2015-05-03 02:17:48] <Emmy B> little clarifying but essentially it is the piece of art that will speak by itself. Fascinating to read above perspectives 🙂

[2015-05-03 08:42:22] <noll> [Tweet] Agree w/ everyone’s points. thanks M, was looking for that last night. & yes, it could do w/ being on AtS website.

[2015-05-03 08:50:32] <noll> also, re CM’s TL, have to agree, it is awful – mostly b/c it’s completely soulless. if PR rather than accepting risk continues long-term, –

[2015-05-03 08:51:54] <noll> – it will hurt CM.

[2015-05-03 13:39:45] <Emmy B> Aidan is funny 🙂 he supports. Helped him distribute my flyers with his ads for next show, gave him lots more to distribute, he was very

[2015-05-03 13:41:58] <Emmy B> thankful, chatted after the show about details, he asked for more info to get it right, I will send links with info.

[2015-05-03 13:43:51] <Emmy B> the shows continue this week in Brighton, today about 30 ppl came filling the small venue, great atmosphere. He will do the show in London

[2015-05-03 13:45:38] <Emmy B> in July 20th, very keen to link up with supporters and improve the show. Wants to come Fri 19th July at special anniversary vigil. Leicester

[2015-05-03 13:49:47] <Emmy B> square theatre the next venue and in August Edinburgh festival.

[2015-05-03 14:27:06] <WISE Up Wales> Hi Emmy, glad this was worth the trip to Brighton. If show is good, maybe we should put dates/links on wiseup calendar?

[2015-05-03 15:10:48] <LibertarianLibrarian> Sorry I missed most of the above discussion until now. I agree with y’all, esp. what WL said about the gender representations.

[2015-05-03 15:11:45] <LibertarianLibrarian> Emmy, glad to hear the show ‘ s good. Wish I could afford another summer trip to London but can’t this year.

[2015-05-03 18:47:59] <noll> w/ re to catching show in Brighton, Killian: “you can book tickets to guarantee a place ( they are still free) but also it is a lunch time –

[2015-05-03 18:48:12] <noll> – show so u can probably walk in.”

[2015-05-03 18:54:21] <noll> DM on EAW:

[2015-05-03 19:30:05] <noll> @TransTroops are trolling CM statue & Courage to Resist/ CM Defense Fund’s donation spend.

[2015-05-03 19:45:06] <M> 12 followers. Not really an issue.

[2015-05-03 20:37:49] <Emmy B> oh Aidan needs a new title for show for Edinb. Been told ‘saving Assange’ too much like ‘saving private ryan’ etc he was asking me for ideas

[2015-05-03 20:38:34] <Emmy B> (me? gig titles? LOL) any suggestions will pass on 🙂

[2015-05-03 20:50:28] <M> Not getting positive engagement or retweets. You can keep an eye on it, but not worth the effort because no effectiveness atm.

[2015-05-03 20:54:23] <Emmy B> I blocked them a few days ago but they persist, if they continue the same tune maybe I will add their name to the troll list?

[2015-05-03 20:54:42] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-05-03 20:58:04] <Emmy B> Morning all 🙂 @ H thax for link! interacted with Symeou back in Autumn when we were doing EAW twitter campaign, actively campaigns against

[2015-05-03 21:00:41] <Emmy B> I mentioned the very case to Aidan to demonstrate how unjust & distractive use of EAW is & made parallels with JAs case, will send link on.

[2015-05-03 21:02:25] <noll> Em, yes would do. / M, agree. think worth noting it’s there – seems similar to old prolific (now suspended) troll account: @ManningTrial

[2015-05-03 21:06:42] <Emmy B> @ g absolutely, I will ask for the details! (he offered free tickets to supporters) happy for us to distribute flyers etc at venue, also…

[2015-05-03 21:08:16] <Emmy B> he said we are most welcome to stand up say a few words at the end of the show so if you are around Sat 20th… 🙂

[2015-05-03 21:08:33] <Emmy B> *July*

[2015-05-03 21:10:04] <Emmy B> @ jenny <3

[2015-05-03 21:13:28] <noll> what about ‘Speak For Me’?

[2015-05-03 21:14:56] <Emmy B> goodnight 🙂

[2015-05-03 21:34:43] <LibertarianLibrarian> That sounds great Emmy!

[2015-05-03 21:36:21] <LibertarianLibrarian> Late, just dropped in, good night all. Tweeted the DM story. Wow, that’s horrific. And a good example of what JA is fighting.

[2015-05-03 21:54:35] <Emmy B> Thanks Jenny! Chortle has a review of the show

[2015-05-03 21:58:23] <Emmy B>

[2015-05-03 21:59:11] <Emmy B> I sent an e-mail to Steve Bennett the author with request to kindly change the word charges, we have corresponded in the past, hopefully

[2015-05-03 21:59:21] <Emmy B> he will correct.

[2015-05-04 00:57:49] <WISE Up Wales> Killian is from Dublin where there’s lots of support. I’ve emailed our Irish list – includes actors/musicians who may know him already…

[2015-05-04 00:59:13] <WISE Up Wales> …or can make contact. Donal O’Kelly will be at Edinburgh Fringe too. Good to build links.

[2015-05-04 03:15:44] <Emmy B> Wonderful! 🙂 xx

[2015-05-04 04:30:44] <Emmy B> How lovely! just read Steve Bennett’s e-mail confirming that he amended his article, there is hope after all! Let’s keep trying! 🙂

[2015-05-04 05:11:20] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-05-04 05:11:42] <Emmy B>

[2015-05-04 05:11:52] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet] Anyone seen this?

[2015-05-04 05:12:33] <Emmy B> My comment on the Bennett article has been removed, a first!

[2015-05-04 05:14:55] <Emmy B> @ Wise Up , no reading now !

[2015-05-04 08:04:49] <noll> Em, what did your comment say? surprised BreeZee wasn’t censored:

[2015-05-04 08:18:23] <Emmy B> nice one 😉

[2015-05-04 08:19:13] <Emmy B> well it is my first ever comment to be moderated out so I must have done something terribly wrong hahahaha

[2015-05-04 08:19:22] <Emmy B> three points:

[2015-05-04 08:22:14] <Emmy B> 1. her relationship with John Humphrys (mentioned here:

[2015-05-04 08:23:05] <Emmy B> instead of conducting an interview to find out the truth he took it upon himself as part of the establishment to make JA a social pariah.

[2015-05-04 08:24:30] <Emmy B> could have lead to prejudice, evident from the arrogant disdain throughout her article.

[2015-05-04 08:26:42] <Emmy B> 2. claimed Sony e-mails are of employees engaging in sony economic activity, they are not personal e-mails. Mentioned the argument that some

[2015-05-04 08:28:11] <Emmy B> wish to see corporations get privacy rights as if they were individuals instead of being public institutions owned privately

[2015-05-04 08:28:23] <Emmy B> . Claimed she reflected this view

[2015-05-04 08:29:37] <Emmy B> 3. with regards to ‘they engage in gossip’ I said she shares views of others who claimed cablegate was libelous gossip, mentioned Erdogan

[2015-05-04 08:30:08] <Emmy B> of course and asked if she was comfortable sharing a chair at the same table as Erdogan.

[2015-05-04 08:31:49] <Emmy B> it doesn’t matter, I must have been rude without realising… but i have not kept copy so maybe I don’t recall everything correctly.

[2015-05-04 09:16:43] <LibertarianLibrarian> Oh, I doubt you were rude. I suspect they simply didn’t like what you said. Too bad you didn’t keep it. Could’ve blogged it & then we could

[2015-05-04 09:17:00] <LibertarianLibrarian> point out the Guardian’s hypocrisy in what they allow in their comments.

[2015-05-04 09:17:10] <LibertarianLibrarian> What you said all sounds rational and reasonable to me.

[2015-05-04 09:17:32] <LibertarianLibrarian> But congrats on getting banned by the guardian, I’d take that as an ironic compliment. LOL

[2015-05-04 09:17:55] <LibertarianLibrarian> not banned, but you know what I mean. Censored?

[2015-05-04 09:18:14] <Emmy B> oh Jenny 🙂 xxxx hahaha

[2015-05-04 09:19:30] <LibertarianLibrarian> Interesting tweet and article, Wiseup.

[2015-05-04 09:20:37] <LibertarianLibrarian> 🙂

[2015-05-04 10:28:21] <Emmy B> oh, Mr Humphrys won Sony award 2 years ago !!!

[2015-05-05 09:17:49] <WikiLeaks> Great story on Marval CEO saying he doesn’t believe in female superhero’s to Sony CEO (because they don’t pay) out today form WL docs.

[2015-05-05 09:18:25] <WikiLeaks> Would be helpful to push this to feminists.

[2015-05-05 10:04:37] <Emmy B> They may be interested in updating their article:

[2015-05-05 11:14:22] <noll> Marval CEO story fits well w/ ongoing Black Widow/ Joss Whedon ‘controversy’

[2015-05-05 16:07:28] <WISE Up Action> FYI Re CM ‘approval’ for Davide Dormio statue as per previous discussion. It’s now up on CMSN which is some help

[2015-05-05 16:10:32] <WISE Up Action> I think the ‘image’ is totally appropriate (and anyway who’s to say it’s a ‘male’ image, just cos it’s short hair & tros!).But I’m gonna

[2015-05-05 16:14:23] <WISE Up Action> email them again about changing name & he to she.That’s a clear line that shouldn’t be ignored however off putting to some ppl it may be.

[2015-05-05 17:31:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> I agree about the image. Besides, it represents who she was when she took action as a whistleblower and when she stood trial. That’s part of

[2015-05-05 17:31:27] <LibertarianLibrarian> Who she is today.

[2015-05-05 17:33:22] <LibertarianLibrarian> This ‘argument’ over the statue title and gender image seems ridiculous at best & at worst an attempt to steal attention from the real

[2015-05-05 17:33:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> Purpose and message of the artwork.

[2015-05-05 17:35:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> I don’t like to see something that should be about human courage, integrity and truth be buried in an argument over how CM looks in it.

[2015-05-05 17:37:18] <LibertarianLibrarian> Most public photos of her are as the soldier in uniform.

[2015-05-05 17:38:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> There’s this ‘trans’ twitter account that has been attacking courage to resist, wondering if that’s a troll, not real.

[2015-05-05 17:51:38] <WISE Up Action> Maybe,dunno.It’s crap anyway. And the image is fine.I dont think the use of Bradley and he is OK tho.It’s a very simple matter to correct it

[2015-05-05 17:53:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, I agree re the use of ‘he’ and didn’t she legally change her name?

[2015-05-05 18:01:25] <LibertarianLibrarian> Regardless, she expressed her preference so that should be respected. But I think the artist meant well. It’s an adjustment, I occasionally

[2015-05-05 18:01:39] <LibertarianLibrarian> Forget and I try.

[2015-05-05 18:05:54] <WikiLeaks> Part of the problem is that the person at that time was also a ‘he’ and also called ‘bradley’.

[2015-05-05 18:06:49] <WISE Up Action> That’s totally understandable of course – we all do. And yes, she legally changed her name over a year ago. I have just emailed thanking

[2015-05-05 18:06:57] <WikiLeaks> There doesn’t seem to be a word, ‘heed’, representing a past tense form.

[2015-05-05 18:09:27] <WISE Up Action> them and linked to her request

[2015-05-05 18:09:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> The legal name change is a solid reason for using Chelsea. Perhaps ‘formerly Bradley’ might work – yes, we don’t really have good terms for

[2015-05-05 18:09:58] <LibertarianLibrarian> gender changes.

[2015-05-05 18:10:59] <LibertarianLibrarian> Or non-standard genders for that matter.

[2015-05-05 18:11:00] <WISE Up Action> won the world boxing heavyweight championship? the historical record is Mohammed Ali (Cassius Clay) not the other way round.

[2015-05-05 18:11:47] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, that makes sense and will very likely be the same for Chelsea.

[2015-05-05 18:12:03] <WikiLeaks> FYI:

[2015-05-05 18:14:21] <LibertarianLibrarian> Interesting! A nice visualization of language evolving.

[2015-05-05 18:17:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> And that represents a change in society & culture too, though there will always be some resistance.

[2015-05-05 18:17:58] <WISE Up Action> Hah, well Chelsea prefers trans* (with a * OK?) It’s a fucking minefield!! Lucky I noticed before we publd this

[2015-05-05 18:19:55] <WikiLeaks> It may have legal and financial consequences.

[2015-05-05 18:20:21] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yeah. I was just looking at medical terminology, represented by PubMed (Medline)’s medical subject headings.

[2015-05-05 18:20:35] <WikiLeaks> There was a huge debate over the definition of ‘waterboarding’, which used to be defined as a torture technique. That fight is documented…

[2015-05-05 18:20:37] <WISE Up Action> it’s just a matter of doing our best like with anything. What may?

[2015-05-05 18:20:46] <WikiLeaks> …in the WikiPedia history for the term.

[2015-05-05 18:21:25] <WikiLeaks> Similarly, there’s has been a big fight on as to whether our staff are journalists and as to whether WL is a media organization, becuase..

[2015-05-05 18:21:36] <WikiLeaks> …it has legal and political consequences.

[2015-05-05 18:21:38] <LibertarianLibrarian> Transgender added in 2013, formerly transsexualism from 2001-2012.

[2015-05-05 18:23:59] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, and those consequences can be serious.

[2015-05-05 18:25:52] <M> Transvestite always referred to cross-dressing rather than living as non-birth sex, I think. Eddie Izzard still calls himself transvestite.

[2015-05-05 18:26:41] <WISE Up Action> Oh right. Well there’s a world standard/protocol for treatment etc

[2015-05-05 18:27:08] <M> There’s always Ed Wood’s 1953 classic, “Glen or Glenda”:

[2015-05-05 18:28:17] <LibertarianLibrarian> Re defining journalists, I think the world is changing faster than the old definitions can keep up with, and the ‘old guard’ is trying…

[2015-05-05 18:28:49] <LibertarianLibrarian> to hold onto what favors them, fighting inevitable change.

[2015-05-05 18:30:12] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s true in a lot of areas today. My own field keeps playing with names, librarians, information specialists, informationists, etc.

[2015-05-05 18:31:25] <LibertarianLibrarian> When I was at Vanderbilt, it would change every couple of years. When I left, we were ‘knowledge management specialists’ or some such.

[2015-05-05 18:32:44] <LibertarianLibrarian> People have tremendous arguments over what we call ourselves, which I think is ridiculous, yet it does represent a massive shift in…

[2015-05-05 18:33:15] <LibertarianLibrarian> What we do and how we do it.

[2015-05-05 18:34:09] <LibertarianLibrarian> And if you don’t stay up with the changes you rapidly become obsolete.

[2015-05-05 18:34:55] <WikiLeaks> People should call themselves ‘obsoletists’ and be done with it.

[2015-05-05 18:35:37] <LibertarianLibrarian> I think that’s the same underlying fear of ‘traditionalists’ looking at new forms of journalism and media like Wikileaks and others.

[2015-05-05 18:36:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> LOL! Yes, that’s exactly what they are! And what they’re afraid of.

[2015-05-05 18:36:24] <WikiLeaks> There just a bunch of finks trying to protect their turf.

[2015-05-05 18:37:43] <WikiLeaks> Really, we’ve never encounted a profession with such responsibility and such incompetence. Each day they fly jumbo jets filled with entire..

[2015-05-05 18:38:17] <LibertarianLibrarian> Exactly. I see so much of that in academia. The territoriality and inflated egos are incredible.

[2015-05-05 18:39:10] <WikiLeaks> ..nations. And each day they manoever according to whim, petty personal vendettas, sucking up or because they can’t be arsed.

[2015-05-05 18:39:44] <WikiLeaks> There’s more deaths on the average journalists head than the average soldier, by a factor of a 100.

[2015-05-05 18:41:20] <LibertarianLibrarian> I wouldn’t doubt that. I was just complaining earlier today how giving a previously intelligent woman the title of ‘Dean’…

[2015-05-05 18:41:56] <LibertarianLibrarian> Resulted in immediate deletion of brain function while simultaneously inflating the ego beyond proportion

[2015-05-05 18:42:19] <WikiLeaks> If you want to see who someone really is, give them power.

[2015-05-05 18:43:10] <WikiLeaks> There’s a half dozen decent national security journalists in english, who the other 10,000 journalists in english detest.

[2015-05-05 18:43:47] <M> [Tweet] This was just tweeted, but I can’t get the link to open:

[2015-05-05 18:44:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, sadly very true. Seen it happen close up.

[2015-05-05 18:44:46] <WISE Up Action> So agree. The power and abnegation of responsibility of media is so damaging. Imagine the good that could be done! It’s so depressing

[2015-05-05 18:45:32] <WikiLeaks> Facebook have now directly intervened in the UK election. A sign of things to come.

[2015-05-05 18:47:12] <LibertarianLibrarian> Interesting link, M.

[2015-05-05 18:47:54] <WISE Up Action> It’s opened for me, M.

[2015-05-05 18:48:44] <LibertarianLibrarian> Seriously? Facebook is so dangerous. I’m glad I got off it.

[2015-05-05 18:49:56] <LibertarianLibrarian> I tell people I am boycotting it for ethical reasons. Most agree but then say they’re using it anyway b/c family or friends are.

[2015-05-05 18:52:22] <M> PDF: New FOI document re WL, TPP, WaPo article saying US will not charge JA

[2015-05-05 18:54:37] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes. Not as much there as I expected but it does include the TPP environmental Chpt release

[2015-05-05 18:55:26] <M> PDF: New FOI document re WL, TPP, WaPo article saying US will not charge JA

[2015-05-05 18:56:59] <LibertarianLibrarian> The highly redacted bit on the HOM interview is interesting, though.

[2015-05-05 19:54:35] <noll> M, is this the link?

[2015-05-05 20:07:22] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, that’s it.

[2015-05-05 20:07:25] <noll> interesting comments by US Head of Mission

[2015-05-05 20:07:57] <LibertarianLibrarian> I agree. I’d love to see the redacted parts of that.

[2015-05-05 20:09:37] <LibertarianLibrarian> *totally off topic* But just have to say that having my heart monitor broadcasting over AT&T to some medical co in another state is creepy!

[2015-05-05 20:11:04] <LibertarianLibrarian> HIPAA protections my ass. This is probably totally unprotected & hackable, & the fact no one could care less about my irregular heartbeat is

[2015-05-05 20:11:09] <LibertarianLibrarian> Irrelevant.

[2015-05-05 20:12:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> Freaky.

[2015-05-05 20:12:52] <LibertarianLibrarian> *interruption over*

[2015-05-05 20:20:27] <noll> HIPAA exemptions (usual cover-all..):

[2015-05-05 20:32:46] <noll> another take re Wls comments on armchair stenographer/ war:

[2015-05-06 01:33:27] <Emmy B> Re: Hipaa exceptions, what a nightmare.

[2015-05-06 01:51:59] <Emmy B>

[2015-05-06 05:37:31] <LibertarianLibrarian> Oh, thanks, I really need to look over those exceptions… what a nightmare!

[2015-05-06 05:39:20] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’m getting really, truly sick of ‘National security’ as an excuse for violating our rights and liberties. It’s gone insane!

[2015-05-06 08:28:56] <noll> as politicians get nervous over gaining/ retaining seats, now is good time to flag UK/ election centric cables.

[2015-05-06 09:12:22] <noll> has anyone else been blocked by Steinitz?

[2015-05-06 09:26:33] <WISE Up Action> Yep, still blocked

[2015-05-06 09:42:38] <Emmy B> I don’t think I am, I can view her profile and her photo stream with no problem.

[2015-05-06 09:43:09] <Emmy B> I just realised that Anke has three accounts not just one:

[2015-05-06 09:43:35] <Emmy B> Please observe the retweets demonstrated on the archived link.

[2015-05-06 09:43:54] <Emmy B> Anke Domscheit-Berg


[2015-05-06 09:44:12] <M> The other two haven’t been used since 2013.

[2015-05-06 09:44:18] <Emmy B> Anke Domscheit-Berg


[2015-05-06 09:45:21] <Emmy B> Yes you are right, I just noticed.

[2015-05-06 09:46:11] <Emmy B> I just mention this here, in case @ h wishes to check steinitz interaction with those accounts.

[2015-05-06 10:11:52] <noll> Em, will look through them, & document anything interesting.

[2015-05-06 12:17:34] <M> Feminist activists went and put a wig on Manning statue and spraypainted a trans logo near/on the display.

[2015-05-06 12:24:17] <noll> & they didn’t spray-paint ‘rapist’ etc on JA statue, hard to think of more compelling sign of Sweden’s snowballing PR failure.

[2015-05-06 12:27:37] <M> Heh, apparently JA is now considered a “famous Londoner”.

[2015-05-06 12:28:03] <WISE Up Action> Doesn’t look as though its damaged, which is good.

[2015-05-06 12:31:15] <WISE Up Action> It really pisses me off that the message on protesting the image is that girlie’s must have long hair ffs

[2015-05-06 12:37:23] <WISE Up Action> wtf is that about?! How is it ‘male’? We females not allowed to wear trousers now, huh?

[2015-05-06 12:50:56] <Emmy B>

[2015-05-06 12:53:56] <Emmy B> Not quite the same as pulling down the swastiga from the Acropolis, now, is it?

[2015-05-06 12:54:26] <M> The statement is ridiculous.”This is a typical act of ‘daddy knows best’ male supremacy”, etc. I hadn’t realized they glued the wig on.

[2015-05-06 12:55:30] <Emmy B> some may see this action as kind of putting the david’s star on the new Jew, opening the way for the real trans/homo-phobes to bully Chelsea

[2015-05-06 13:01:04] <Emmy B> very selfish

[2015-05-06 13:09:22] <noll> M, MacFadyen was certainly improvement – imagine David Leigh screeching about JA to hapless tourists 30 mins..

[2015-05-06 13:12:55] <WISE Up Action> Oh H lay off with the nightmares x

[2015-05-06 13:16:12] <Emmy B> hehehe can’t fit into anything decent… will be giving the reception a miss 😉

[2015-05-06 13:24:33] <noll> when did feminism fall to empty posers..

[2015-05-06 13:28:00] <WISE Up Action> Precisely. A Barbie wig indeed. How much do we want to promote them, though? How much is it circulating w/o us? Shld we ignore? Or not?

[2015-05-06 13:32:13] <noll> should we ignore? / & why a Barbie wig – b/c group is likely fake – first post “May 3rd, 2015”

[2015-05-06 13:34:05] <Emmy B> This action is grotesque I would not call them feminists.

[2015-05-06 13:34:42] <Emmy B> Only the trolls will jump on this.

[2015-05-06 13:37:12] <Emmy B> there is another aspect to this too. Do all trans* ppl have to be ‘outed’ as such? only the person involved has the right to define/declare

[2015-05-06 13:37:31] <Emmy B> express what they are.

[2015-05-06 13:38:24] <Emmy B> this artistic expression (statue) does not represent CM as a person as much as an idea due to her action, which is for what she will be

[2015-05-06 13:38:39] <noll> – we’re not sure how to respond. / Em, group has ‘existed’ for *three days via few random fem’ posts. & now this. it’s not authentic.

[2015-05-06 13:38:52] <Emmy B> remembered.

[2015-05-06 13:39:13] <Emmy B> Well, if this is the case, we should take a look at them.

[2015-05-06 13:39:23] <Emmy B> thanks!

[2015-05-06 13:40:27] <WISE Up Action> Well that’s true Emmy, but she has come out. And I think it’s both but the person is integral to the idea you speak of.

[2015-05-06 13:41:08] <noll> no fem’ group serious enough to take that action would make Barbie mistake, or post such obviously contrived material.

[2015-05-06 13:42:14] <WikiLeaks> The statue is a success. It’s pictures are everywhere. The idiots will be seen as such.

[2015-05-06 13:42:41] <noll> – going back to your comments, – we expect CM is very proud of who she was during that time. & others should be to.

[2015-05-06 13:43:38] <Emmy B> @ h Buzfeed and gawker posts, could it be these ppl are not German but American? why use US publications?

[2015-05-06 13:49:30] <Emmy B> Strange spellings of phobia as ‘foebia’ in the domain name, what language is that? German?

[2015-05-06 13:50:46] <Emmy B> ah! probably word play with Foe, I see…

[2015-05-06 13:55:37] <WISE Up Action> This is the letter we sent earlier

[2015-05-06 13:56:28] <WISE Up Action> now replied affirming.

[2015-05-06 14:00:01] <WikiLeaks> Sorry–who replied affirming what?

[2015-05-06 14:00:23] <WikiLeaks> Also, who wrote the excellent, long, recent wiseup text re: Manning?

[2015-05-06 14:01:05] <noll> Wls, perhaps. it’s not likely to excite serious fem/ trans activists, but then they’re not ones jumping up & down in limelight.

[2015-05-06 14:01:41] <WISE Up Action> Chelsea Manning Support Network. And that they agreed with the request and how it was formulated. Hah! Me We’re making an attempt to update

[2015-05-06 14:03:01] <noll> Em, agree, dressed up as anarchists posting buzzfeed.. it’s laughable.

[2015-05-06 14:04:07] <WISE Up Action> the whole site.So that will become a sep heading ‘Chelsea Manning’ on the menu. Other headings still to be written up ‘JA’ ‘The Docs’ etc

[2015-05-06 14:08:58] <WikiLeaks> Yes. The German trans* activists are probably a CIA first mission test.

[2015-05-06 14:09:22] <WikiLeaks> Do you know who wrote it at CMSN?

[2015-05-06 14:13:12] <WikiLeaks> Their prose is not usually so good.

[2015-05-06 14:14:50] <WISE Up Action> Wrote what? D’you mean their write up on their website

[2015-05-06 14:15:38] <Emmy B> Lindi wrote the wise up article, dah!

[2015-05-06 14:16:51] <Emmy B> As usual, her language is amazing <3

[2015-05-06 14:19:52] <WISE Up Action> Cheers, Em! Yes, I wrote

[2015-05-06 14:22:14] <WikiLeaks> We meant this:

[2015-05-06 14:22:19] <WikiLeaks> It’s excellent.

[2015-05-06 14:23:10] <WikiLeaks> The best thing we’ve seen, actually.

[2015-05-06 14:23:18] <WikiLeaks> [on Manning]

[2015-05-06 14:25:01] <WikiLeaks> Although we’re proud of this, too:

[2015-05-06 14:26:19] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-05-06 14:29:17] <WISE Up Action> Oh praise indeed. TYVM. I have concentrated on following the case closely as I can.Good old Alexa.And there is a link to yr statement in it.

[2015-05-06 14:31:10] <Emmy B> Maybe should be the basis for a new flyer? ready for London Pride?

[2015-05-06 14:37:40] <WISE Up Action> which we also thought singular (it’s under Court Martial heading) and have had on home page since it was pub’d…

Yes, maybe we do need

[2015-05-06 14:37:48] <WikiLeaks> It’s very clear, but still covers a lot of detail, that’s a hard combination.

[2015-05-06 14:37:59] <WISE Up Action> new flyer.

[2015-05-06 14:47:01] <WISE Up Action> I felt there was not a lot out there that was comprehensive & interesting so spent a lot of time on it.Very glad indeed you all like it! TY

[2015-05-06 14:47:53] <Emmy B> I think it would be a wonderful content for a new flyer in addition to the excellent we still have and we can take the opportunity to update

[2015-05-06 14:48:01] <Emmy B> the photo to how CM wishes to be depicted 🙂

[2015-05-06 15:09:33] <Emmy B> Thanks for the Re-tweets from WiseUp Blog WL 🙂 Good Night all! x

[2015-05-06 15:10:45] <noll> night Em :o) x

[2015-05-06 15:22:19] <M> Channel 4 has comedy programme “Bugsplat” which apparently parodies Collateral Murder

[2015-05-06 16:52:58] <Bean> did someone say ‘flyer’? email me if you would like a hand 🙂

[2015-05-06 23:41:30] <Emmy B> Beanyyyy! <3

[2015-05-06 23:52:44] <Bean> yes am here lurking in the background! <3

[2015-05-06 23:54:02] <Emmy B> 😀

[2015-05-06 23:57:19] <Emmy B> Thank you for your kind offer, I will speak to Lindi about a new flyer for CM and we are coming up to the 3rd Embassy Anniv. so I’d like to

[2015-05-06 23:59:11] <Emmy B> Ask for an update to our Sun or Cell flyer cover pls to ‘3 years’

[2015-05-07 00:00:16] <Bean> yes great – no worries…

[2015-05-07 00:00:35] <Bean> also… bean will be lurking indefinitely in the uk from july so look forward to catching up with y’all over time 🙂

[2015-05-07 00:02:37] <Emmy B> omg – fantastic!!!! really looking forward it 🙂 catch up with you later *dashing- schoolrun*

[2015-05-07 00:04:13] <Bean> 🙂

[DMConversationEntry] WISE Up Action changed the group name to hazelpress + 9

[2015-05-07 06:44:35] <WISE Up Action> apparently I ‘changed the group name to hazelpress + 9’.It’s unintentional.Don’t know what I did or what it was before.Sorry. Am technodiv

[DMConversationEntry] You changed the group name to wikileaks + 10

[2015-05-07 06:57:27] <noll> well.. ‘my first CIA operation’ sure made an impact:

[2015-05-07 07:02:27] <WikiLeaks> The statue has already established its own credibility. They’ll need a much sexier operation than that to ruin it.

[2015-05-07 07:33:51] <noll> perhaps MI5 trainees can do better, unlikely / if schedule allows, this could be good moment to bring AtS to UK:

[2015-05-07 07:51:50] <noll> of interest:

[2015-05-07 08:03:35] <noll> another perfect rely by Greenwald:

[2015-05-07 08:59:46] <Emmy B> What does AtS stand for?

[2015-05-07 09:00:50] <noll> Anything to Say

[2015-05-07 09:03:02] <Emmy B> of course! ::-)

[2015-05-07 09:03:58] <Emmy B> I think Paris might be next on schedule 🙂

[2015-05-07 09:23:37] <Emmy B>

[2015-05-07 12:08:46] <LibertarianLibrarian> Great stuff! I get stuck in work and in a doctor’s office and cool stuff happens out here. But I’m being sent home so can catch up soon. 🙂

[2015-05-07 12:09:47] <LibertarianLibrarian> I think ignoring those idiots is best. No one is going to take seriously someone stupid enough to use a Barbie wig to deface art.

[2015-05-07 12:10:23] <LibertarianLibrarian> Congrats Lindi on the article.

[2015-05-07 12:12:20] <Emmy B> Agree, excellent point!

[2015-05-07 14:02:53] <noll> [Tweet] bbc one – “remarkable”, “sensational”

[2015-05-07 14:13:30] <WikiLeaks> That’s a major turn around compared to polling.

[2015-05-07 14:16:30] <noll> yes! surprising, looks like we’re staying up. Greens + 1 :o) Lib Dems.. haha / Em, was only one Steinitz/ Anke:

[2015-05-07 14:18:01] <WikiLeaks> We’d guess that the exit poll is flawed, but it’s also possible that today’s front pages + Torygraph emails shifted results.

[2015-05-07 14:19:39] <Emmy B> thx H! I don’t understand UK pol in the least!

[2015-05-07 14:19:58] <WikiLeaks> Cameron is now 1/7 to be next PM for bookmakers. The smart money is on the Tories now.

[2015-05-07 14:22:07] <noll> 2010’s exit was close to dead on:

[2015-05-07 14:30:15] <noll> – but that only goes so far, labour’s front bench has no weight to it, & major figures like ed balls/ miliband don’t cut it at all.

[2015-05-07 14:31:41] <WikiLeaks> Yes. That’s well known.

[2015-05-07 15:30:01] <LibertarianLibrarian> At least they have some slight variations in their parties and more than 2 potential options. I don’t know the UK parties well, but it’s

[2015-05-07 15:30:06] <LibertarianLibrarian> Interesting

[2015-05-07 15:31:12] <LibertarianLibrarian> Somehow my country has to find a way out of this ‘2 party’ system which has devolved into evil #1 vs evil #2 & there’s no real diff.

[2015-05-07 15:57:15] <noll> SNP advance is stunning. since indyref London establishment has seemed set on federal UK, b/c after all, anything less is lost.

[2015-05-07 16:13:02] <noll> Jen. there’s also no substantial diff’ here – labour tends feed fatcats & undo minimalist socialism w/ jawdropping economic incompetence.

[2015-05-07 16:58:06] <noll> if conservative largest party, labour largest coalition? – media could effectively decide this.

[2015-05-07 17:42:06] <LibertarianLibrarian> Guess I don’t know the parties well enough. Just seems like there’s more variety with Tories, Conservatives, Labour, Greens.

[2015-05-07 17:43:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> Well, we technically have a Green party in some places, I think. Really, the only semi-viable 3rd party is Libertarians & I vote 4 them.

[2015-05-07 17:45:14] <LibertarianLibrarian> Not that it’s done much good.

[2015-05-07 17:48:01] <noll> Andrew Marr – ultimate establishment journo is now forecasting federalism via bbc. / Jen, have to go back to 1908:

[2015-05-07 17:51:55] <noll> – for last time 3rd party (Liberals) formed govt. but things looking interesting for future, & soon climate change w/ become huge factor.

[2015-05-07 17:54:34] <Bean> had a laugh at this…guardian asks ‘what went wrong with the polls?’ not ‘ what went wrong with labour… and our politics?’ !!

[2015-05-07 17:54:37] <Bean>

[2015-05-07 17:56:38] <LibertarianLibrarian> LOL!

[2015-05-07 18:02:07] <noll> haha JB looks close to tears! wonder what he was hoping for (for himself) over next 5 years.

[2015-05-07 18:19:48] <noll> labourites now blaming media bias – but it’s a chicken & egg thing: leadership/ policies, could have followed SNP ‘social’ platform which –

[2015-05-07 18:22:22] <LibertarianLibrarian> It’s clear the Scottish independence movement isn’t finished by a long shot.

[2015-05-07 18:22:40] <noll> – powered past media. or, looked ahead & elected David Miliband & gone Blair 2.0. as it is we’ve literally already forgotten their campaign.

[2015-05-07 18:31:55] <noll> [Tweet] looks like Wls ally George Galloway is out.

[2015-05-07 18:34:30] <noll> Jen, Marr has been very well briefed by Whitehall, stating SNP is “unstoppable” & Cameron will lead last UK ‘as we know it’ govt.

[2015-05-07 18:52:30] <LibertarianLibrarian> Galloway seemed like a cool guy, or at least independent and unique. And always sad to see a WL supporter go out

[2015-05-07 18:56:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s very interesting re the SNP. Definitely worth watching. There was likely to be a backlash given the closeness of the referendum…

[2015-05-07 18:56:32] <noll> labour campaign in GGalloway’s constituency was in complete disarray, but then they got it together & GG responded w/ v. negative campaign.

[2015-05-07 18:57:31] <LibertarianLibrarian> Oh, yeah, voters get sick of those kinds of campaigns. Not the best tactic.

[2015-05-07 18:59:16] <WISE Up Action> Maybe SNP anti-austerity,anti-trident etc message winning so dramatically will have impact widening the parties, forcing some change

[2015-05-07 19:00:51] <LibertarianLibrarian> There will have to be some adjustments made in response to big SNP win. They have certainly made a statement.

[2015-05-07 19:02:39] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, GG is one of the few British politicians I’ve heard of, so he was a strong voice.

[2015-05-07 19:04:27] <noll> Jen, agree re GG. / Action, agree, if only labour had followed policies w/ decent front bench, & greens had CL leading.

[2015-05-07 19:04:53] <LibertarianLibrarian> Who’s CL?

[2015-05-07 19:05:52] <noll> Caroline Lucas –

[2015-05-07 19:08:38] <LibertarianLibrarian> Thanks. Her name’s faintly familiar – seen her mentioned on Twitter. Good to know.

[2015-05-07 19:09:55] <noll> she was leader of Greens, replaced by:

[2015-05-07 19:10:45] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-05-07 19:12:17] <WISE Up Action> Oh God, give me anything to radicalise parties against Tories.

[2015-05-07 19:12:51] <noll> Jen, are you in US, if so can you see:

[2015-05-07 19:13:14] <LibertarianLibrarian> Oh wow, that is an awful interview. Embarrassing!

[2015-05-07 19:14:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’m in the US, can’t view the BBC iPlayer (which quite often irritates me as I do like some of their drama shows).

[2015-05-07 19:18:09] <LibertarianLibrarian> My parents vote Green sometimes, but that party isn’t significant here. Then again, I vote Libertarian & that’s not much better.

[2015-05-07 19:19:45] <LibertarianLibrarian> But I am hoping Vermont ‘socialist’ Bernie Sanders is going to give Clinton fits. Doubt I’d vote for him, but he’s a character & quite

[2015-05-07 19:20:02] <LibertarianLibrarian> popular is some areas.

[2015-05-07 19:20:54] <LibertarianLibrarian> Plus, he’ll go after her, which I’ll enjoy just because.

[2015-05-07 19:22:49] <LibertarianLibrarian> Anyway, work night so off to sleep for me. Y’all are up late, or is it early by now? G’night, hope the final results aren’t too bad 4 you.

[2015-05-07 19:24:13] <noll> Jen, Sanders does look likely to push HC to left, but it’ll only be skin deep. it’s 3.23 am, we’re staying up for results – as always :o/

[2015-05-07 19:24:26] <noll> night xx

[2015-05-07 19:25:23] <LibertarianLibrarian> Oh, she won’t change; only Hillary matters to Hillary. But I’d like to see her sweat a bit.

[2015-05-07 19:25:49] <LibertarianLibrarian> Get some sleep soon! 🙂

[2015-05-07 19:27:00] <noll> will do, 6 or 7 am should see things out!

[2015-05-07 19:28:16] <noll> Action, you’ve got it – SNP.

[2015-05-07 19:29:27] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-05-07 19:35:42] <noll> bbc reporting that guardian reporting Ed Miliband could be out by lunch time. sounding upset..

[2015-05-07 19:37:03] <noll>

[2015-05-07 19:44:41] <noll> no sign yet of Kirsty Wark’s bbc cocaine performances..

[2015-05-07 19:48:02] <noll> (probably in a Scottish toilet ranting about Putin’s new tanks).

[2015-05-07 20:09:48] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-05-07 20:11:43] <noll>–/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/5/8/1431053022297/ea53a246-32c3-4c1e-9f77-6089c879d3b6-1384×2040.jpeg

[2015-05-07 20:18:03] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-05-07 20:20:46] <WISE Up Action> Bless her (SNP) cotton socks. Blair’s endorsement kiss of death.

[2015-05-07 20:29:50] <WISE Up Action> Hope Labour losses (if they continue) don’t give the Labour right an excuse to say it all went wrong because they veered 1cm to the left!

[2015-05-07 20:31:49] <noll> completely agree. neo-liberalism, when will it be taken on? at least SNP has proven there are votes/ power for at least voicing opposition.

[2015-05-07 20:37:19] <WISE Up Action> Yep-in some ways I think mass shout out coming from Scotland is greater hope for any change even if it’s bad news short term for rest o us

[2015-05-07 20:39:20] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-05-07 20:40:25] <WISE Up Action> It’s heartening that (whatever SNP is actually like) NS was strident for anti-austerity and that must be largely what the vote is for

[2015-05-07 20:42:24] <WISE Up Action> and the turnout in Scotland so big. I’m just relieved to see ANYTHING that gives hope that people will vote so vociferously for change

[2015-05-07 20:51:04] <WISE Up Action> Yeah-that’s exactly what I hope.And I don’t know how clear it is how much the vote in Scotland is for independence & how much agnst policies

[2015-05-07 20:51:27] <WISE Up Action> that have dominated in UK

[2015-05-07 20:54:02] <noll> – even SNP don’t want full independence (read Wls cables). it’s all about London establishment policies (see death of Tories 80s, then –

[2015-05-07 20:55:00] <noll> labour post-Blair). / Clegg survives – almost alone.

[2015-05-07 20:56:32] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-05-07 20:59:29] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-05-07 21:01:21] <noll> bonfire of the vanities..

[2015-05-07 21:28:13] <noll>

[2015-05-07 21:38:19] <noll> [Tweet] clueless..

[2015-05-07 21:38:47] <WISE Up Action> pointless!

[2015-05-07 21:42:18] <WISE Up Action> Thanks for the cable. I’m going to bed I think. Red wine & tiredness giving me heartburn; party politics & estab media giving me heartache!

[2015-05-07 21:44:28] <noll> night Action xx think will be following shorty, result clear.

[2015-05-07 21:45:03] <WISE Up Action> Night – nice to have yr companionship xx

[2015-05-08 03:09:34] <Emmy B> Overall majority for the tories, rule Britania & all that. I blame Olympics, Jubilee street parties + Ed no charisma

[2015-05-08 03:09:41] <Emmy B> (not putting gorgeous baby girl on list just because)

[2015-05-08 03:10:56] <Emmy B> “The war mongers have it!” x 2

[2015-05-08 03:32:40] <WISE Up Wales> Well, at least we don’t have to go through that thing of people becoming re-disillusioned with Labour all over again…

[2015-05-08 03:33:06] <WISE Up Wales> …and the Tories on their own get to take full responsibility and blame for what they do…

[2015-05-08 03:33:49] <WISE Up Wales> …and there are (hopefully) still a few libertarian Tories to cause Cameron some problems.

[2015-05-08 06:33:32] <noll> Russell *Brand “People were telling me, journalists, who know loads about politics, look if Labour don’t get in..”

[2015-05-08 06:39:22] <LibertarianLibrarian> Interesting quote from the story further down “Cameron has heard Salmond’s Scottish lion roar and wants to tame the beast.” I.e. more

[2015-05-08 06:39:38] <LibertarianLibrarian> political doublespeak

[2015-05-08 06:40:04] <LibertarianLibrarian> But at least he has to pay some attention.

[2015-05-08 06:45:25] <Emmy B> hmm GCHQ may get higher budget & teams on SNP? Imagining Putin & Isis Brigade 77 Social Media Task force may get 3rd target.

[2015-05-08 06:53:35] <LibertarianLibrarian> I suspect you’re right Emmy. They already were targeting them, now more. But still glad to see popular defiance to that.

[2015-05-08 07:18:42] <WISE Up Action> Agree, W, but full mandate for continuation of same is dire. Immediate implications for people eg benefits,muslim community,nhs v upsetting.

[2015-05-08 07:18:51] <WISE Up Action> A change of gov does make the machine stutter a bit at least.

[2015-05-08 07:19:54] <WISE Up Action> But we mostly do get at least two terms of anyone, don’t we?

[2015-05-08 07:44:18] <noll> A, W, agree that it’ll be bad, but not sure it’ll be so much worse, unlike Thatcher era, current brood keep (at least) referencing Peel era.

[2015-05-08 07:59:30] <WISE Up Action> No-one needs to repeat Thatcher – it’s never been undone.

[2015-05-08 08:34:01] <noll> agree.

[2015-05-08 09:00:41] <noll> [Tweet] of interest.

[2015-05-08 09:04:30] <Emmy B> yes it is but I thought Trade Unions stayed out of politics these days

[2015-05-08 09:13:42] <Emmy B> The nightmare of every politician :

[2015-05-08 09:14:05] <Emmy B> Is this what GCHQ will have in store for SNP?

[2015-05-08 09:17:20] <Emmy B> the threat alone of any disclosures would probably be enough to be used at time negotiations btw Westminster/Holyrood. With current

[2015-05-08 09:17:42] <Emmy B> capabilities and motive….who will ever know.

[2015-05-08 09:18:01] <noll> Unions funds Labour/ City funds Tories (& both expect to get what they pay for).

[2015-05-08 09:21:55] <Emmy B> very interesting thanks for sharing! an incentive for labour to keep rhetoric at least on ‘workers rights’ etc

[2015-05-08 09:31:12] <noll> “Is this what GCHQ will have in store for SNP?” – seems unlikely? Tories will threaten SNP w/ independence (ie. losing £8+ billion a year).

[2015-05-08 09:39:42] <noll> no comment needed.

[2015-05-08 10:00:35] <M> WikiLeaks’ Sony email on Marvel CEO vs Female Superheroes made Guardian’s “This Week in Feminist News”

[2015-05-08 10:02:19] <Emmy B> So much for Ms Bennett’s vitriolic ‘deals with gossip’ article.

[2015-05-08 10:02:49] <Emmy B> I wonder if comments are still open 🙂

[2015-05-08 10:14:08] <Emmy B> no, there is a shame!

[2015-05-08 10:27:58] <Emmy B> going through the comments in the particular article I observed that whilst most commentators put a URL intact to refer to an outside source

[2015-05-08 10:29:30] <Emmy B> 2 accounts have embedded their URL into a word/phrase ie they inserted a hyperlink. How is this possible? have they used html code in the

[2015-05-08 10:30:00] <Emmy B> comments section to embed? Does anyone now? example:

[2015-05-08 10:31:19] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-05-08 10:42:12] <noll> Em, isn’t system: select txt, URL button, pop-up field, insert URL etc? haven’t used for ages. going back to M5S: if used would follow –

[2015-05-08 10:46:17] <Emmy B> You are right, just remembered option thanks!

[2015-05-08 10:55:51] <noll> – (or one way of using) something similar to DEA/ NSA, w/ media, others using “parallel construction” cover where information originated.

[2015-05-08 11:01:25] <Emmy B> Yes, agree, it would have to be.

[2015-05-08 11:03:34] <Emmy B> So several risks facing politicians with GCHQ capabilities: 1. blackmail 2. exposure (parallel construction) to discredit

[2015-05-08 11:04:39] <Emmy B> 3. various forms of sabotage via leaking to political adversaries both in own party or competitor party… where r the politics professors

[2015-05-08 11:07:12] <Emmy B> writing about all this? and only Caroline Lucas has taken gov to court regarding Wilson rights…what happened to this case anyway?

[2015-05-08 11:07:14] <noll> yes, although 1. & 3. are extraordinarily risky, so would also need form of parallel construction.

[2015-05-08 11:07:24] <Emmy B>

[2015-05-08 11:09:28] <Emmy B> Interested to see SNP position on the matter, will they get ‘radicalised’ if get to taste the med. throwing their weight behind CL efforts?

[2015-05-08 11:10:22] <Emmy B> or probably could be in it too? having their own circle within the listening network.

[2015-05-08 11:12:21] <Emmy B> They certainly play to win. That is a classic problem with regulatory capture of the grand scale, if one takes a bird’s eye view.

[2015-05-08 11:13:04] <Emmy B> How can we possibly expect parties that want to govern to forego such a sweet tool of power?

[2015-05-08 11:18:04] <M> NPR responded to controversy over their selection of guests for the recent WL podcast with Michael Choen, John Cook

[2015-05-08 11:43:39] <noll> re how much more Tories will hurt poor to pay for Labour’s bankcat frenzy:

[2015-05-08 11:44:56] <noll> Em, that’s great point. we don’t know where that went, other than nowhere:

[2015-05-08 11:52:05] <Emmy B> Good links, M, Hazel, thanks!

[2015-05-08 12:07:02] <noll> thanks :o) IPT yet to rule on CL complaint:

[2015-05-08 12:09:49] <noll> – “IPT dealt w/ 1,500 complaints since it established. not upheld any about any of UK’s intelligence agencies.”

[2015-05-08 12:12:53] <noll> but that’s recently changed:

[2015-05-08 12:50:00] <Emmy B> Excellent resources those hazel! 🙂

[2015-05-08 14:31:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, those are great and I agree, Emmy, maybe WL should consider it, too.

[2015-05-08 14:32:43] <LibertarianLibrarian> At least you’re supposed to have a guarantee your MPs aren’t being bugged, our Congress is surely bugged and blackmailed. No doubt.

[2015-05-08 14:34:07] <LibertarianLibrarian> Be cool if Lucas could make a case and make it stick, or one or more of the SNP-ers. They’ll surely be surveilled. Who isn’t these days? 🙁

[2015-05-08 20:51:07] <noll> anyone has any ideas re UK based FOI requests on Wls/ JA related. pls post.

[2015-05-09 00:27:47] <Emmy B> [Tweet] Please please Re-tweet widely 🙂

[2015-05-09 00:33:13] <Emmy B> Theresa May on Snowden revelations, terrorism, new legislation and the SNP’s attitude to Data Retention etc.

[2015-05-09 00:34:01] <Emmy B> so this is what we can expect and no one is there to stop them auch!

[2015-05-09 07:28:19] <noll> Em, ‘Theresa May to revive ‘snooper’s charter’ now Lib Dem brakes are off’

[2015-05-09 08:00:02] <Emmy B> Let’s brace ourselves for what’s to come!

[2015-05-09 08:20:43] <noll> isn’t it retroactive legislation? “what’s to come!” already here, just needs to be signed off.

[2015-05-09 12:03:39] <noll> David Miliband/ Hillary Clinton (Blair/ US) love-in could be coming back around..

[2015-05-09 12:11:47] <noll> seems that’s out of date:

[2015-05-09 13:19:05] <WISE Up Action> May is an absolute nightmare.It’s just the sort of thing I meant.Tories pretend they don’t like stuff like this in opposition but in govt

[2015-05-09 13:19:25] <WISE Up Action> they’re rabid

[2015-05-09 17:01:34] <noll> agree, but it’s a weapon & an arms race, unless a party advocates disarmament.. difference is how deeply it reveals nature of the state, –

[2015-05-09 17:03:21] <noll> – willing to target civilians at home/ abroad, sweep away liberties & for what? utterly counter-productive, destabilizing foreign policies.

[2015-05-09 17:22:19] <noll> not to mention the slaughter. re change – climate as political ‘tipping-point’:

[2015-05-10 11:46:39] <noll> v. Wls sort of issue coming up (will be passed at some point, & once started will likely never end):

[2015-05-10 11:55:49] <Emmy B> Any excuse to bomb it seems, but even more ppl will flee (the bombing), just in different directions (someone else’s problem?)

[2015-05-10 13:36:12] <noll> is anyone else seeing “Service Temporarily Unavailable” for this:

[2015-05-10 13:54:34] <noll> it’s back up.

[2015-05-10 14:17:21] <Emmy B>

[2015-05-10 14:17:52] <Emmy B> In which planet do we live in?

[2015-05-10 14:33:23] <noll> *sigh / we’re in process of writing to Phillip Knightley on off chance he’ll do a written Q/A interview re Wls/ JA case (b/c we’re –

[2015-05-10 14:35:15] <noll> – sick of the one line quotes amid inaccuracy). if anyone has question ideas, pls post. two interesting FOIs sent to UK Home Office today, –

[2015-05-10 14:35:46] <noll> – should have response w/i two weeks or so.

[2015-05-10 14:50:27] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-05-10 14:50:47] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-05-10 18:53:39] <noll> re trolls, media, threat narratives etc, this is often hilarious, v. clever:

[2015-05-10 18:59:44] <noll> (disclaimer – we’re not particularly interested in US Atheism/ Feminism wars, but as mention in previous group, techniques used seem to –

[2015-05-10 19:00:13] <noll> – have caught on, to say least).

[2015-05-10 19:12:26] <noll> – a perfect description of MGT, different time, place, subject:

[2015-05-10 20:41:35] <LibertarianLibrarian> I never even knew such a ‘war’ exists and I’m an American atheist, ok, ignostic to be pedantic, but… wow, that is a good description.

[2015-05-10 20:41:45] <LibertarianLibrarian> Same behavior.

[2015-05-10 20:43:32] <LibertarianLibrarian> This Gove guy sounds terrible – i.e, he’ll fit in well with Clinton and co. 🙁

[2015-05-11 03:28:59] <WikiLeaks> Supreme court has found against JA.

[2015-05-11 03:30:01] <WikiLeaks> Very important now to point out 1) that there is a dissenting opinion that found in JA’s favour and said the warrant shoudl be quashed.

[2015-05-11 03:30:27] <WikiLeaks> i.e some judges (but not the majority) went JA’s way. i.e reasonable minds, even in sweden, differ.

[2015-05-11 03:31:47] <WikiLeaks> 2) john pilger’s article as background. 3)

[2015-05-11 03:33:03] <WikiLeaks> prison at least. 5) the UN is still considering the case at the WGAD and will make its judgement any moment.

[2015-05-11 03:34:30] <Emmy B> Thank you! we keep going <3

[2015-05-11 03:34:35] <M> SC suggests major reason for decision was prosecutor’s move to interrogate (goes with narrative from JA lawyers)

[2015-05-11 03:35:18] <M> This interesting too, Samuelson says decision made w/o letting them close argument

[2015-05-11 03:37:15] <M> The past few prosecution statements don’t sound like they’re making any progression.

[2015-05-11 03:48:35] <M> I don’t see any of the articles noting the difference in judicial opinion, so I think v important to push that a lot.

[2015-05-11 04:01:05] <WISE Up Wales> Is there a link to share that references the dissenting opinion in Supreme court?

[2015-05-11 04:11:03] <M> Only the Supreme Court ruling as far as I know (Swedish only currently)

[2015-05-11 05:13:18] <M> Important article from Guardian: split decision means it isn’t set it stone

[2015-05-11 06:05:26] <Emmy B> ‘One of the five Supreme Court judges dissented and argued for the arrest warrant to be lifted.’

[2015-05-11 06:15:57] <noll> M, archived, translated:

[2015-05-11 07:16:59] <noll> we will be posting new article re SC decision, proportionality etc, around 6 pm.

[2015-05-11 09:08:44] <M> Full decision is now up (Swedish PDF)

[2015-05-11 09:08:58] <WikiLeaks> Worth educating: @madsvim (31k followers)

[2015-05-11 09:15:46] <noll> M, full decision, archived, ‘translated’:

[2015-05-11 09:16:49] <noll> our article will be posted tmrw 6 pm – too much to get through to get it out today.

[2015-05-11 09:18:59] <noll> does anyone know what aspects of appeal arguments were not heard (ie cut off)?

[2015-05-11 09:19:49] <WikiLeaks> All of them.

[2015-05-11 09:20:11] <WikiLeaks> We only filed documents for the case to open the appeal.

[2015-05-11 09:20:37] <WikiLeaks> Then the prosecution filed documents saying that the Supreme should hear the appeal.

[2015-05-11 09:21:03] <WikiLeaks> Normally, then you “hear” the appeal. i.e then the arguments proper are made.

[2015-05-11 09:21:17] <WikiLeaks> And then the other side responds and then you respond to their response.

[2015-05-11 09:21:49] <WikiLeaks> The court made its full appeal decision just on the application to appeal, not the appeal itself.

[2015-05-11 09:22:17] <WikiLeaks> to be clear: it decided the full appeal, but just using the document set for the application to appeal

[2015-05-11 09:22:31] <WISE Up Wales> Can this departure from normal process be appealed, or is there nowhere to go with it?

[2015-05-11 09:22:38] <WikiLeaks> which is highly irrigular and neither did it notify us that it was doing that.

[2015-05-11 09:23:01] <WikiLeaks> nowhere to go under swedish law

[2015-05-11 09:23:18] <WikiLeaks> but it may feed into an ECHR case

[2015-05-11 09:23:48] <WikiLeaks> simiarly the UK supreme court decided on an argument that neither party presented. also highly irrigular. that’s what happens in

[2015-05-11 09:23:52] <noll> is there anyway we can paraphrase this? as coming from Samuelson’s team or something.

[2015-05-11 09:24:07] <WikiLeaks> super political cases. If the law is on your side, they have to cheat.

[2015-05-11 09:24:29] <WikiLeaks> it’s mentioned in the guardian article by crouch

[2015-05-11 09:26:56] <noll> political cases.. agree. yes, we have that quote, but as you get w/ msm, it’s pathetically short, w/o detail, context etc.

[2015-05-11 09:31:13] <noll> is it true that after questioning, the appeal against detention order can be rebooted?

[2015-05-11 09:34:01] <noll> / re previous: whatever, we’ll fill it out.

[2015-05-11 09:42:59] <Emmy B> Unlike prospect of success with @madsvid

[2015-05-11 09:54:32] <M> @Madsvid has 30k followers – but is also following 30k which suggests ‘I follow you, you follow me’, so people who don’t actually care

[2015-05-11 09:55:02] <M> Noticeable also in that they don’t receive many retweets. Plus, they don’t seem to care about facts.

[2015-05-11 10:06:23] <WikiLeaks> The follow 31k too, so the follow count likely means little.

[2015-05-11 10:06:36] <WikiLeaks> [They]

[2015-05-11 10:07:24] <Emmy B> Good points, thank you 🙂

[2015-05-11 10:07:57] <WikiLeaks> But the Chair of the UN WGAD is from Norway and is also called ‘Mads’. Norway is small and socially connected, so opinions there matter.

[2015-05-11 10:11:53] <Emmy B> *cough cough*, this Mads is Danish x but don’t worry we are on the case 🙂

[2015-05-11 11:04:40] <Emmy B> Very good interview with @AndrewSymeou1 about his ordeal brought on by EAW

[2015-05-12 07:44:02] <noll> glee of Ian Brown’s NSAUA testimony re GCHQ impunity, is.. (& all those pesky court cases don’t seem to worry him one jot).

[2015-05-12 08:19:13] <Emmy B>

[2015-05-12 08:22:42] <noll> Em, #SnooperCharter battle going to run & run, opportunity for Wls. thank for interview link – horrifying.. / another great release :o)

[2015-05-12 08:25:36] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-05-12 08:27:27] <LibertarianLibrarian> It’s an awesome release! I’ve been sending out to some US Sens/Reps.

[2015-05-12 08:27:40] <LibertarianLibrarian> FWIW

[2015-05-12 08:31:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> OK, now I can’t see those in my timeline. Weirdness. Was going to do some more.

[2015-05-12 11:30:57] <WikiLeaks> Once those SNP MP’s get up to speed, Labour will be forced to be a lot more oppositional or else risk losing all relevance.

[2015-05-12 11:39:44] <Emmy B> But there are forces within Labour that say ‘to get to power you go right’ & majority of MPs follow such line. I hope u are right of course.

[2015-05-12 11:46:38] <noll> [Tweet] running down the clock (so that collapse of case can be blamed on JA)?

[2015-05-12 11:50:07] <noll> Em, Labour v. likely turn right in terms of economy/ business interests, but w/ civil liberties, coalition SNP/ Lab/ ‘The Liberals’?

[2015-05-12 11:50:38] <noll> / Em can you repost you troll block list? thanks :o)

[2015-05-12 11:51:16] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-05-12 11:53:52] <Emmy B> Updated it adding two more accounts, feedback very welcome.

[2015-05-12 11:54:23] <Emmy B>

[2015-05-12 11:55:04] <Emmy B> the iamlikenew seems to be prolific both seem (to me at least) ‘paid’

[2015-05-12 11:57:10] <Emmy B> Placed it as a page on my blog so it is now very easy to find.

[2015-05-12 12:09:36] <noll> “at stake, a [neo]-liberal economic order”

[2015-05-12 12:43:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> Thanks Emmy!!

[2015-05-12 12:44:59] <LibertarianLibrarian> I have, in extreme procrastination at work, created a public list of US Senators’ Twitter accounts, all 100, via my account. Use at will.

[2015-05-12 12:45:23] <LibertarianLibrarian> The House of Reps may be a chore for another day.

[2015-05-12 12:50:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> Awesome news re the TPP Fast Track. Embarrassing to Obama, his own party got in his way. Hahaha. We owe this to Wikileaks releases.

[2015-05-12 12:53:58] <Emmy B> Thank you Jenny! excellent work and so useful for our campaigns 🙂

[2015-05-12 12:56:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> Was trying to tweet WL’s new release at them this am and realized I needed an actual list, not just the few I follow. 🙂

[2015-05-12 12:59:08] <Emmy B> This is the type of work that benefits the community, never thought to make a UK MPs in Twitter list, despite Myo/me tweeting all of them.

[2015-05-12 12:59:22] <Emmy B> Will do in future! <3

[2015-05-12 13:08:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> 🙂 It will be good to throw WL releases & news and related issues at them, even a few a time.

[2015-05-12 13:14:45] <WikiLeaks> If someone can make a list of all the SNP MPs (nearly all of them new) that would be very helpful. They’re fresh at the moment.

[2015-05-12 13:15:12] <WikiLeaks> SNP is the only party of influence that has a chance of being pro-WL.

[2015-05-12 13:31:41] <noll> new Wls-related FOIs:

[2015-05-12 13:32:45] <WikiLeaks> Looking

[2015-05-12 13:44:47] <LibertarianLibrarian> Be interested to see what, if anything, they send you, Hazel.

[2015-05-12 13:46:10] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’ll let one of the UK folks take the lead on listing the SNP MPs; but if needed, I can help.

[2015-05-12 16:37:58] <noll> Jen, previous FOI reply proved interesting, but yes, will see if that repeats. / our new article has expanded, will take a bit more time.

[2015-05-12 16:54:22] <LibertarianLibrarian> Good luck! 🙂

[2015-05-13 05:27:34] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-05-13 05:28:37] <noll> if anyone has FOI idea re UK – now is the time.

[2015-05-13 05:42:01] <noll> [Tweet] this could (if not already) incl. Wlsup:

[2015-05-13 08:46:04] <LibertarianLibrarian> That article on Cameron is terrifying. Sounds like they want to stop anyone encouraging any kind of independent thought.

[2015-05-13 08:47:02] <LibertarianLibrarian> Let’s treat anyone utilizing intellectual freedom as an extremist and terrorist. How terrifying that is!

[2015-05-13 08:48:46] <LibertarianLibrarian> God forbid we dare to teach young people to think for themselves (putting aside the fact that I don’t believe in a definable God).

[2015-05-13 08:51:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> My librarian’s soul is outraged that anyone can say this kind of thing with a straight face and mean it.

[2015-05-13 09:06:04] <noll> “UK Supreme Court produced 117 pages of argument before side-stepping everything before it, but the Swedish Supreme Court only managed –

[2015-05-13 09:06:54] <noll> – eight and a half dulsetory pages.” (political judgements – different traditions).

[2015-05-13 09:14:36] <noll> Jen, agree, it’s insane. there wasn’t single ME threat or attack against UK before Iraq. legacy of war that never ends? Airstrip One

[2015-05-13 09:23:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> Amazing how people justify themselves, either by wasting time on extra documenting or trying to avoid seeing anything at all.

[2015-05-13 09:25:15] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, we brought too much of this on ourselves. Nationally and personally, the US needed to respond to 9/11 decisively. But…

[2015-05-13 09:26:40] <LibertarianLibrarian> it should have been done within 6-12 months. I know an ex-soldier who said they’d done what was needed in a few months & should’ve been out

[2015-05-13 09:27:35] <LibertarianLibrarian> This perpetual war we’ve instigated is harming everyone and only benefiting some military contractors and politicians.

[2015-05-13 09:30:07] <LibertarianLibrarian> Sadly, those making a fortune off the war have too much influence and power over our governments.

[2015-05-13 09:33:54] <Emmy B> So true Jenny!

[2015-05-13 09:43:27] <WISE Up Action> March2015 ‘ extremism analysis unit is compiling list of LEGAL BUT UNACCEPTABLE individuals & groups: ‘The move goes far beyond current

[2015-05-13 09:45:41] <WISE Up Action> powers to ban violent extremist & terrorist orgs & paves way for range of non-violent legal orgs to be blacklisted

[2015-05-13 09:47:41] <WISE Up Action> Except. Not at Oxford or Cambridge Universities.

[2015-05-13 11:52:43] <Emmy B>

[2015-05-13 18:08:25] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s absolutely crazy! If you’re obeying the law, how can you be ‘unacceptable’ in a free society? You’re unacceptable b/c May doesn’t

[2015-05-13 18:10:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> like your politics, religion, ethnicity, ideas, or just that you dare question her? What are we becoming? What Orwellian nightmare is this?

[2015-05-13 18:12:11] <LibertarianLibrarian> I can’t Cameron & May are getting away with this without massive public rejection and where are the journalistic hard questions?

[2015-05-13 18:12:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> Are all the UK Press sellouts? I’m not surprised by some but…

[2015-05-13 18:14:27] <LibertarianLibrarian> Obama & Clinton wouldn’t get away with this in my country yet. They have to be sneakier. Is that better? Not sure.

[2015-05-13 23:58:38] <Emmy B> Again you are right Jenny… everyone seems to be frozen on the issue somehow here in UK but it is slowly entering the political discorse

[2015-05-14 00:23:07] <WISE Up Action> Em, sense a period of widespread conflict ahead. Unions already active, general public waking up to consequences of Tory gvt. London esp

[2015-05-14 00:24:20] <WISE Up Action> At centre of protests to come in diff areas. Think the housing issue will become huge.

[2015-05-14 01:04:10] <Emmy B> Let’s hope so! because unless there is push bottom up…. we’ve had it!

[2015-05-14 01:50:55] <Emmy B> Something dodgy about @madsvid followers/follows all about marketing, purchase followers, branding oh & he follows the usual Guardian crowd

[2015-05-14 05:58:36] <LibertarianLibrarian> Could be work-related. Or he doesn’t have real followers. I need to clean mine out sometime. But if he buys into Guardian poison, not good.

[2015-05-14 06:40:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> [Tweet] Now this is a cool approach to Cameron’s blatant stupidity. 🙂

[2015-05-14 08:50:54] <noll> “May asked to define extremism in new counter-extremism bill”.

[2015-05-14 08:59:35] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-05-14 12:44:53] <noll> this is huge.

[2015-05-14 13:16:07] <noll> or not.. can anyone see a way to link Laden perjury to verdict? b/c atm we can’t.

[2015-05-14 13:29:35] <noll> @carwinb.

[2015-05-14 13:36:45] <WISE Up Action> The naming of AQ in Charge 1 (4) &. (5) significant or not?

[2015-05-14 13:41:40] <noll> having read Alexa’s TL – it’s significant that it was used, but verdict on Wanton Publication charges doesn’t rely on that evidence.

[2015-05-14 13:46:51] <noll> “for those 4 files [which] would be privileged out.. would not be able to view content”

[2015-05-14 13:47:46] <noll> ugh.. you couldn’t make it up.

[2015-05-14 14:00:14] <WISE Up Action> Yeah got it. Reading that section. Alexa did incredible job.

[2015-05-14 14:03:30] <noll> yes, agree. she said she was writing it up, hope so, it really should be.

[DMConversationEntry] Cabledrum added WikiLeaks Press

[2015-05-14 20:12:44] <Cabledrum> A little side note re. Bundestag Inquiry into NSA:

[2015-05-14 20:12:48] <Cabledrum> Johannes Eisenberg, a (former?) lawyer of WL, served as legal adviser for seven witnesses, all from BND, incl. General Breitfelder.

[2015-05-14 20:12:55] <Cabledrum> Of course, everyone has the right to legal assistance.

[2015-05-14 20:13:01] <Cabledrum> But obviously, Eisenberg is a contractor of the BND. That doesn’t make him necessarily trustworthy.

[2015-05-14 21:24:43] <Emmy B> Thanks for this! There is so much out there in German about the new publication but difficult to follow.

[2015-05-14 21:25:05] <Emmy B> Has it been well received?

[2015-05-14 23:39:16] <Emmy B> I will be doing an SNP Twitter member List today

[2015-05-15 03:41:03] <Emmy B> This might be of interest maybe CD you can explain it to us a bit

[2015-05-15 03:41:08] <Emmy B>

[2015-05-15 06:00:41] <Cabledrum> First of all, the documents show how all concerned parties systematically try to block the work of the inquiry commission.

[2015-05-15 06:01:04] <Cabledrum> The witnesses from BND and Telekom “can’t remember”, “was not responsible”, “do not know” and so on

[2015-05-15 06:01:51] <Cabledrum> For instance, the former CEO of Telekom, Kai-Uwe Ricke, had a four-eyes-meeting with the chief of the BND…

[2015-05-15 06:01:55] <Cabledrum> …but can’t remember what they’ve been talking about

[2015-05-15 06:02:33] <Cabledrum> The newspaper article you mentioned, “Kauder and Maaßen criticize WikiLeaks”, comes from the “Welt”, a very conservative newspaper

[2015-05-15 06:03:42] <Cabledrum> Volker Kauder (CDU parliamentary leader) is a conservative hardliner.Hans-Georg Maaßen is the chief of Germany’s domestic secret service BfV

[2015-05-15 06:04:03] <Cabledrum> Kauder criticizes that the WL release “might threaten the cooperation of German secret services with the NSA”

[2015-05-15 06:06:25] <Cabledrum> (hopefully, he’s right)

[2015-05-15 06:08:57] <Emmy B> Let’s hope so, yes! Thank you very much for this Cabledrummer.

[2015-05-15 06:09:45] <Emmy B> I only took a quick look at the english reports but there is little analysis in English for the latest release.

[2015-05-15 08:27:04] <M> Found the original Reddit threads where “Assange Shuffle Collective” took credit for the goatse billboard in Buckhead, Atlanta.

[2015-05-15 08:27:14] <M>

[2015-05-15 09:07:22] <noll> [Tweet] new pet-theories billboard!

[2015-05-15 09:44:32] <noll> M, is that Homeland Security’s first case?.. ASC (pre-arrest ritual) to FBI: “good luck we’re behind 7 proxies”.

[2015-05-15 09:48:38] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-05-15 09:53:02] <noll> Wls, perhaps #wanted2015 suggestions should be relayed anonymously. Theresa May goons w/ nothing better to do comes to mind.

[2015-05-15 16:35:53] <noll>

[2015-05-15 18:57:51] <noll> later today we’re posting two articles. here’s first:

[2015-05-15 18:58:14] <noll> – it’s not yet complete.

[2015-05-15 19:20:42] <Emmy B> Thank you very much hazelpress! wonderful work! It is very clear, easy to follow arguments

[2015-05-15 19:41:08] <noll> thanks Em. :o)

[2015-05-15 20:07:20] <LibertarianLibrarian> Oustanding work, Hazel!!! Very clear, reasoned, well-supported.

[2015-05-15 20:20:32] <noll> thanks Jen. :o) / here’s second:

[2015-05-15 20:31:52] <Emmy B> “This conduct is highly irregular and follows the pattern set by Assange’s extradition appeal to the UK Supreme Court (May 2012), where the

[2015-05-15 20:32:14] <Emmy B> court decided on an argument that neither party presented, rather than set precedent through.. bypassing of ECtHR case-law “that is correct”

[2015-05-15 20:32:32] <Emmy B> I can’t grasp completely this point

[2015-05-15 20:32:57] <LibertarianLibrarian> Thanks for sharing! On the second one – see if you can make it clearer where you are showing the courts’ opinion distinct from your response

[2015-05-15 20:33:31] <LibertarianLibrarian> A couple of spots weren’t clear, sounded like you were arguing their side not opposing it.

[2015-05-15 20:34:05] <LibertarianLibrarian> Otherwise, these are wonderful!

[2015-05-15 20:34:55] <Emmy B> particularly this bit “rather than set precedent through.. bypassing of ECtHR case-law “that is correct””

[2015-05-15 20:39:39] <noll> if means, that in order to rule against JA, the UK SC would have had to set a UK case-law precedent, that bypassed EU case-law precedents.

[2015-05-15 20:43:04] <noll> & SC wasn’t willing to do that, & besides, why do it when you can just, not ignore, but bypass presented arguments, by ruling on something –

[2015-05-15 20:43:47] <Emmy B> thank you, that explains it pls consider putting it in like that? it would make it clearer to an international audience 🙂

[2015-05-15 20:43:59] <noll> – else.

[2015-05-15 20:44:14] <noll> yes, will tidy that up.

[2015-05-15 20:44:16] <Emmy B> spell check “ablity”

[2015-05-15 20:44:25] <Emmy B> *reading*

[2015-05-15 20:46:36] <Emmy B> The Hyperlinked article in”According to Thomas Olsson (representing Assange), Ny is yet to submit MLA requests to either the UK or Ecuador.”

[2015-05-15 20:47:54] <Emmy B> does not support the statement you make, it just states that the interview date has not been set, it des not say MLA requests not submitted

[2015-05-15 20:48:07] <Emmy B> did I misunderstand?

[2015-05-15 20:48:47] <noll> yes, “they need to make a request” can only mean they have’t made one.

[2015-05-15 20:49:32] <noll> fixed “ablity”, thanks. :o)

[2015-05-15 20:49:55] <noll> *haven’t

[2015-05-15 20:52:22] <Emmy B> “although politically the process in Sweden is dead.” you mean the appeal?

[2015-05-15 20:56:01] <noll> yes, to restart the process is now pointless. the decision was so blatantly political, devoid of any concern for the law or argument, that –

[2015-05-15 20:58:12] <noll> – to attack it in Sweden’s courts is futile. b/c after all (as w/ UK) the SC has ruled..

[2015-05-15 21:00:20] <Emmy B> Well, following this case I am delighted to have the political nature of judicial authorities exposed. Still, as such there is a state of

[2015-05-15 21:00:26] <Emmy B> continuous flux

[2015-05-15 21:00:45] <Emmy B> it seems the only limitation is resources, financial or otherwise.

[2015-05-15 21:02:27] <Emmy B> By starting last summer, the legal team has come a long way in exposing several weaknesses and ultimately penetrate the ‘authority tower’ of

[2015-05-15 21:03:50] <Emmy B> Mrs Ny in the court of public opinion, questioning her judgement and operation in this manner. Equally, the Swedish Supreme court is not

[2015-05-15 21:05:10] <Emmy B> going to look pretty, still, politics is everywhere it seems…

[2015-05-15 21:06:12] <noll> there is no way the SC will reverse itself. & v. especially not after that ruling. it would be political suicide for all involved.

[2015-05-15 21:07:40] <noll> it’s now down to Ny (& the political pressures on her), one of which is the ECtHR (which could well reverse Swe SC).

[2015-05-15 21:08:50] <Emmy B> ‘in light of new evidence’ etc etc, authority has the privilege to re-define acceptability. But of course you are right, pressure now is on.

[2015-05-15 21:10:09] <noll> note how both UK & Swe SCs avoided taking on ECtHR precedents, various actors may not want case to go there. yes, pressure is definitely on.

[2015-05-15 21:10:32] <Emmy B> Thanks for all your hard work <3 my goodness were is the dawn in this country of perpetual overcast?

[2015-05-15 21:11:50] <noll> it seems like dusk. we must get some sleep. will get back to this later on. xx

[2015-05-15 21:12:12] <Emmy B> Good idea! xx

[2015-05-16 06:06:27] <Emmy B> Public List of SNP Members of Parliament (57):

[2015-05-16 06:10:07] <LibertarianLibrarian> Great, Emmy and Hazel!

[2015-05-16 08:19:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> Great!

[2015-05-16 09:41:09] <WikiLeaks> Good work, Emmy on that list.

[2015-05-16 09:42:24] <WikiLeaks> Is there a way to search the list output, e.g from:greekemmy/list/blah?

[2015-05-16 10:03:18] <M> I couldn’t find a built-in functionality for searching lists. Tutorials I saw were just copying all the account names into adv search.

[2015-05-16 10:05:10] <M> The list is pretty long, so for this method, you’d have to divide it into 3 separate searches to cover all members.

[2015-05-16 10:05:32] <M> Template: 1)

[2015-05-16 10:07:02] <M> Not sure if there’s a better way, but those three links combined covers entire list. Just replace the search term at front.

[2015-05-16 10:39:31] <noll> great work Em :o) / we’re going to focus entirely on other work next 10 days or so, will then start Fwlf article, followed by –

[2015-05-16 10:40:41] <noll> – al-Awlaki cables story. will check in time to time, see how things are. h xx

[2015-05-16 11:15:39] <noll> embarrassing. mistake corrected: “Section 240A: The “credit period” is the number of days represented by half of the sum of – the number –

[2015-05-16 11:16:07] <noll> – of days on which the offender is subject to [an electronically monitored (EM) curfew of at least nine hours per day].” apologies, not –

[2015-05-16 11:16:21] <noll> – hours in the day.

[2015-05-16 14:51:53] <WikiLeaks> Emmy, do you have a similar list for the Scottish domestic MPs?

[2015-05-16 15:12:58] <Emmy B> No, but I can get it done tomorrow.

[2015-05-16 15:40:00] <Emmy B> SNP got 69 seats at 2011 Holyrood elections (out of 129), next election is 5th May 2016.

[2015-05-16 15:43:15] <Emmy B> I just found a public list compiled by @thesnp (official twitter account) with 57 MSPs (Members of Scottish Parliament)

[2015-05-16 15:43:40] <Emmy B> Here:

[2015-05-16 15:45:02] <Emmy B> I will work on this list to make one for all 129 MSPs.

[2015-05-16 15:45:30] <Emmy B> tomorrow 🙂

[2015-05-16 15:50:43] <Emmy B> One of the SNP MPs has compiled a public list of Media journos focusing on Scotland, might be of use:

[2015-05-16 16:45:18] <Emmy B> Oh, Found another list with 120 MSP

[2015-05-16 19:38:11] <LibertarianLibrarian> Oh, that’s helpful of that Scottish MP. 🙂

[2015-05-16 19:50:48] <noll> amazing work Em :o) we’d like to take time out & help w/ any twitter campaign re lists, just let us know what to post, will give up evening.

[2015-05-16 19:53:52] <noll> will do via @hazelpress2, for obvious reasons like to keep main account spartan.

[2015-05-16 22:11:47] <WISE Up Wales> Anyone know about this UK whistleblower? – can only find this one opinion piece:

[2015-05-16 22:13:45] <WISE Up Wales> Ah, he’s commented here:

[2015-05-16 22:15:55] <WISE Up Wales>

[2015-05-16 22:16:06] <WISE Up Wales> working covertly to eliminate the biggest threat to the UK for about a year. My real intentions along with more than enough information to

[2015-05-16 22:16:19] <WISE Up Wales> eliminate the Trident programme are contained in a report that was released on the 05-05-15. Almost all of my email accounts have been …

[2015-05-16 22:16:29] <WISE Up Wales> blocked and I’m in hide out in a foreign country; I might be arrested or killed before the public can read the report. I don’t know how many

[2015-05-16 22:16:38] <WISE Up Wales> laws I’ve broken along the way; I doubt men live long enough to serve the sentence they’ll give me. Anyone who reads it will understand:

[2015-05-16 22:16:47] <WISE Up Wales> my information comes from prefect sources, I have no reason to lie and they will understand if change isn’t made a nuclear catastrophe

[2015-05-16 22:16:58] <WISE Up Wales> almost certainly will happen! My ID and photos are in the report, it will break news soon, but no media outlet will publish the full report

[2015-05-16 22:17:02] <WISE Up Wales> because it contains TS information. I have sacrificed everything please help me end this world order of fear!

[2015-05-16 22:17:33] <WISE Up Wales> end quote. Link to comment:

[2015-05-16 22:19:25] <WISE Up Wales> Sounds like he needs help. Ideas? Will forward the new WL submission link.


[2015-05-16 22:24:45] <WISE Up Wales> Oh, report seems to be already on this link:

[2015-05-17 01:30:53] <WISE Up Wales> Thanks for the SNP list Emmy! Just about to use it for the above and for this:

[2015-05-17 01:32:40] <WISE Up Wales> …if I can work out how to use it. Can I send one message that will go to all on the list? Or do I have to tweet one by one?

[2015-05-17 01:47:45] <WISE Up Wales> Oh, they’re for reading tweets only? I’ll have to send messages one by one then I guess. That’s not nearly so attractive! :o(

[2015-05-17 02:25:37] <Emmy B> Yes g that’s right, only individual tweets. Sorry.

[2015-05-17 02:28:54] <Emmy B> has the herald checked the story?

[2015-05-17 02:45:45] <Emmy B> (I am on paywall)

[2015-05-17 03:11:14] <WISE Up Wales> I presume it must have done checks to run it as front page. I haven’t read Herald article, only editorial. Full info

[2015-05-17 03:12:26] <WISE Up Wales> He says he intends to hand himself in to police.

[2015-05-17 05:00:16] <WISE Up Wales> Now published online:

[2015-05-17 05:08:32] <Emmy B> thank you for sharing g!

[2015-05-17 05:41:52] <noll>

[2015-05-17 05:51:02] <LibertarianLibrarian> Let me guess – totally faked.

[2015-05-17 05:51:43] <noll> Wales, thanks for info. “cover-up of collision with French nuclear submarine” no wonder Brown offered to ditch sub..

[2015-05-17 05:53:06] <noll> Jen, yep. & so obviously doctored can only assume someone wanted to make it obvious.

[2015-05-17 05:56:19] <LibertarianLibrarian> Good luck with project!

[2015-05-17 05:56:36] <LibertarianLibrarian> Em, same here re help with lists.

[2015-05-17 05:56:45] <noll> thx Jen x

[2015-05-17 09:02:09] <WISE Up Action>

[2015-05-17 13:19:32] <Emmy B> Amazing Alexa work! it is likely then that USG manufactured evidence for the trial.

[2015-05-17 13:20:58] <Emmy B> Holyrood MSP List

[2015-05-17 13:21:33] <Emmy B> Thanks for the offers of help! ok at the mo.

[2015-05-17 13:22:56] <Emmy B> This is it

[2015-05-17 13:24:13] <Emmy B> Regarding Mark p (ex Pickett) 21st of May the next hearing. I will not even bother reading whatever comes form that place.

[2015-05-17 13:25:48] <Emmy B> I spent a good part of a year shaking in my boots ‘oh my god he is going to harm WL’ I am shaking no more. He is a liar through and through.

[2015-05-17 13:28:16] <Emmy B> He has been proved so again and again and again. He uses fear to get attention from the community. This time I will not oblige 🙂

[2015-05-17 15:57:50] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, Emmy, that’s the best approach. The only ones who pay any attention are his same group of trolls. You can see that clearly.

[2015-05-18 08:34:34] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-05-18 08:38:58] <M> This method is not reliable. WikiLeaks is placed at White House. Russell Brand placed at University of Texas. I’m placed at US gov building.

[2015-05-18 08:39:41] <M> I don’t know the rationale behind it, but a lot of users get placed at US government buildings.

[2015-05-18 08:39:57] <M> Think too that a lot of people use Tor.

[2015-05-18 08:50:22] <Emmy B> I don’t put any significance too (other the entertainment factor) it is curious though that out of all the troll list twitter handles

[2015-05-18 08:51:22] <noll> all the same it’s hilarious (@hazelpress turns up: Revolution Live, Fort Lauderdale, Florida). fyi FOI three is not getting a case no. –

[2015-05-18 08:51:34] <Emmy B> MGT(forum) and AT(PGPBoard) show at US Embassy London as well as when I type MGT’s name on google maps.

[2015-05-18 08:52:04] <Emmy B> (I am UK Supreme Court hahaha)

[2015-05-18 08:52:16] <M> I see. Possibly in some instances it is accurate, but it is so random that it has no weight as evidence.

[2015-05-18 08:53:20] <Emmy B> Agree totally but we have inadvertently produced a win 🙂

[2015-05-18 08:54:22] <noll> we’ve rewritten it:

[2015-05-18 08:55:27] <noll> (thankfully not to Florida..)

[2015-05-18 08:56:45] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-05-18 08:57:04] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-05-18 08:58:00] <Emmy B> While he is doxing me, MGT makes an error, he forgets to log out of his Google account, he does it four times. I have archived and passing

[2015-05-18 08:58:45] <Emmy B> on to Chris and Cabledrum for their court cases. This is more evidence MGT still in control of Forum’s twitter account which he denies.

[2015-05-18 08:59:57] <Emmy B> Pls do not share in twitter or he will delete tweets, the longer they stay up the better it is.

[2015-05-18 09:02:59] <WikiLeaks> Emmy; good find.

[2015-05-18 09:20:11] <Emmy B> Thx <3

[2015-05-18 09:21:24] <Emmy B> Gary told me Asher Wolf discovered the Google maps feature. I played around and produced the shots but it was a friend who saw the value &

[2015-05-18 09:22:47] <Emmy B> encouraged me to share. Then it caught on by others which made MGT ‘lose his marbles’ & wanting revenge doxed me/cabledrum etc and he made

[2015-05-18 09:23:49] <Emmy B> the mistake so it was ‘a group effort’ which is the best part of it as we win twice a. co-operation b. good result *grin*

[2015-05-18 09:24:59] <Emmy B> and he hopefully loses where it matters: in court.

[2015-05-18 09:32:07] <noll> “damn, now everyone knows [who tweets from @wikileaks_forum]”, evidence we’ve seen is rock solid (& v. funny), this is icing on cake, –

[2015-05-18 09:32:11] <noll> great stuff! :o)

[2015-05-18 09:56:29] <Cabledrum> Great find, Emmy! Imho, we can tweet it. It’s archived and several witnesses have seen it. It doesn’t matter whether he deletes the tweets

[2015-05-18 10:43:25] <WikiLeaks> Please don’t tweet it.

[2015-05-18 10:43:37] <WikiLeaks> He may make more similar mistakes.

[2015-05-18 10:51:44] <Cabledrum> Grmpf, ok. 3 days left until court decision…

[2015-05-18 10:54:54] <WikiLeaks> Yes. Why have him warning. It should be a surprise.

[2015-05-18 12:11:40] <Emmy B> Thank you Cabledrummer! 🙂 I wish all the very best and please keep us informed with developments!

[2015-05-18 22:14:52] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, agree. Catch him by surprise in court. 🙂 And good luck!

[2015-05-18 22:37:03] <Emmy B> He already deleted tweets probably realised error when he was making this forum post (archived)

[2015-05-19 04:01:09] <Cabledrum> Very good, Emmy! This is evidence for both, the forum and the twitter acc. The forum post is still online with his name on the screenshots

[2015-05-19 04:03:40] <LibertarianLibrarian> Great!

[2015-05-19 04:04:17] <Cabledrum> Jenny : “Catch him by surprise in court” doesn’t work out in Germany. All evidence has to be presented to the court in advance 🙁

[2015-05-19 04:05:44] <LibertarianLibrarian> Actually it probably does in the US too, at least in criminal court, I think. Not sure. Never dealt with more than traffic court.

[2015-05-19 04:07:07] <LibertarianLibrarian> Just thinking no need to advance warn him on twitter rather than in court docs. But it seems he knows he messed up anyway.

[2015-05-19 08:10:16] <Emmy B> For sure it is the same screenshots but at the forum post he has cropped his name out.

[2015-05-19 12:01:23] <Emmy B> [Tweet] In support of William Mc Neilly

[2015-05-19 13:02:34] <Emmy B>

[2015-05-19 13:02:57] <Emmy B> Shall we share 1st of June event with SNP MPs?

[2015-05-19 13:56:00] <noll> worth watching (if only to see how moribund hipster-journalism compared to geek): Lyndon LaRouche

[2015-05-19 13:56:21] <noll> Em, we would :o)

[2015-05-19 20:15:54] <Cabledrum> Emmy: No, the screenshots at FWLF are not cropped, his name is clearly visible.. Note the scrollbar at the bottom..

[2015-05-19 23:07:59] <Emmy B> Cabledrummer You are right! I was looking at the archived link that does not capture the bar and that section on the picture.

[2015-05-19 23:08:07] <Emmy B> Have you managed to capture this?

[2015-05-19 23:09:29] <Emmy B> (Gosh, good thing we didn’t tweet about it) Maybe the waybackmachine captures the bar? (I don’t know)

[2015-05-19 23:10:37] <Emmy B> @ H thank you for the video, watched some of it, made my hair curl!!! US funding facists but htis is exactly what they did to Greece after

[2015-05-19 23:11:45] <Emmy B> the war (in the name of anti-communism) and opposed the Greek gov efforts to close the concentration camps for political prisoners

[2015-05-19 23:12:45] <Emmy B> and their families, even in the mid 50’s, again interfering in the late 60’s with their support of the junta, 7 years of hell all with the

[2015-05-19 23:14:02] <Emmy B> blessing of CIA torture training, leading up to the national betrayal at Cyprus in 1974 (the attempt to impose junta there

[2015-05-19 23:14:50] <Emmy B> and the attempted overthrow of Makarios which gave the perfect opportunity to Turkey -preparing for an invasion since the 50’s- to finally

[2015-05-19 23:16:47] <Emmy B> invade with the assistance of US/UK and Israel…Eastern Europe did suffer under USSR, Greek experience says “Belonging to the west” also

[2015-05-19 23:17:35] <Emmy B> came at a heavy price for Human Rights, national sovereignty and even national security.

[2015-05-19 23:19:25] <Emmy B> (Listening to Frontline club questions from Rumanian journo about Russia being a threat to Rumania, I could just kick the journo,

[2015-05-19 23:20:32] <Emmy B> does he think that Nato membership will offer security? on the contrary, for small countries it is just changing one master for another.)

[2015-05-19 23:22:42] <Emmy B> With the added risk that your protector (like a pimp) might actually send you packing to your enemy’s arms..occasionally…

[2015-05-19 23:23:02] <Emmy B> as a chip to their own bargaining, for their own interests.

[2015-05-19 23:23:17] <Emmy B> (apologies for the rant).

[2015-05-20 00:52:31] <Emmy B> [Tweet] Got an RT from SNP MP[email protected]_PaulMonaghan for courage foundation, please someone, maybe WiseUps tweet at him too thx

[2015-05-20 05:44:26] <Cabledrum> Emmy: Yes, captured on and wayback machine, both with working scrollbar

[2015-05-20 06:31:39] <Emmy B> Excellent! Hope your lawyer can use them in advance of tomorrow’s hearing, all the best!

[2015-05-20 06:36:01] <WikiLeaks> Emmy, re, rewteet; exactly what we were hoping for. Be the troll you want to see in the world.

[2015-05-20 06:38:15] <Emmy B> 🙂 My dear WL putting best foot forward and let’s see 🙂

[2015-05-20 06:47:12] <Emmy B> He RTed WiseUp!!! (16 rts) too 🙂

[2015-05-20 06:49:05] <WikiLeaks> Did you hit all the mps?

[2015-05-20 06:49:15] <WikiLeaks> Also, can you change your icon to something less creepy?

[2015-05-20 06:49:36] <WikiLeaks> It may help when approaching people.

[2015-05-20 11:15:26] <Cabledrum> I’ve just received a new preliminary injunction, for this tweet:

[2015-05-20 11:15:29] <Cabledrum> I’ve removed this tweet 3 day later by request of [MGT]’s lawyer.

[2015-05-20 11:15:35] <Cabledrum> I have no idea why they seek a preliminary injunction, in spite of the fact that the concerned tweet has already been removed

[2015-05-20 11:20:38] <noll> re variations on media narrative: ‘Wls by helping ES assisted AQ’, OBL letter is of use.

[2015-05-20 11:36:53] <noll> Em, maybe look at SMaurizi/ suigenerisjen/ carwinb’s icons, & if needed ask someone to do quick photo-shoot? xx

[2015-05-20 11:44:01] <WISE Up Wales> Hey WL & all – this is getting a bit personal. Hope no one’s saying Emmy’s lovely face is creepy! :o) FWIW I thought the eye icon was fine.

[2015-05-20 11:52:21] <Emmy B> Yes well, not the happiest of feedback but I have now changed my avatar into a sun, one of Somerset Bean’s work, which I admire so it is all

[2015-05-20 11:52:34] <Emmy B> good!

[2015-05-20 11:54:43] <noll> it’s not personal, it’s just a bad photo (& we’ve all experienced that countless times..), & not ideal for campaigning. maybe Bean could –

[2015-05-20 11:55:23] <Emmy B> no Bean could not 🙂 thanks

[2015-05-20 11:56:00] <noll> – knock something together?.. or not! :o)

[2015-05-20 12:39:38] <LibertarianLibrarian> I liked the eye icon, actually thought about imitating it, but the sun icon is really nice and striking also.

[2015-05-20 12:40:32] <LibertarianLibrarian> Good luck tomorrow, Cabledrummer. Hopefully, you can make some progress vs MGT’s insanity

[2015-05-20 12:41:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> Still catching up from the conference but if you need help tweeting to the SNP MPs or whatever else, let me know!

[2015-05-20 12:42:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> I got to give a 5 minute presentation on the importance of online privacy in communities and our libraries in a session on librarian

[2015-05-20 12:42:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> Activism. That was good.

[2015-05-20 12:43:19] <Emmy B> Thank you Jenny! I saw the response, excellent work 🙂

[2015-05-20 12:46:56] <LibertarianLibrarian> 🙂 I asked Julian’s question, who has a smart phone, then turned it around and asked who didn’t…we actually had 1 person say she didn’t.

[2015-05-20 12:47:19] <LibertarianLibrarian> I told everyone else they were under surveillance. They laughed.

[2015-05-20 12:47:48] <LibertarianLibrarian> But hopefully I made a few people pay attention.

[2015-05-20 12:48:47] <noll> speaking of which:

[2015-05-20 12:48:57] <WikiLeaks> Cable, you should look at the process in germany to declare someone a vexacious litigant.

[2015-05-20 12:50:36] <noll> Bean, could you post temp URL containing HD version of graphic Em is using? it’s great for icon, but bit blurry.

[2015-05-20 12:51:07] <LibertarianLibrarian> Brilliant! Paul & Wyden don’t always get it right but seeing them filibuster the Patriot Act rocks!

[2015-05-20 12:51:32] <LibertarianLibrarian> Good idea, WL

[2015-05-20 12:52:56] <noll> Jen, agree on both. :o)

[2015-05-20 12:58:58] <noll>

[2015-05-20 15:44:47] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-05-20 15:45:54] <Emmy B> Plenty of commentaries to engage with.

[2015-05-21 00:07:39] <Emmy B> This guy also very outspoken in support of McNeilly @euanwrites giving interviews etc…

[2015-05-21 02:58:53] <Emmy B> [Tweet] Got an RT from Jenny Jones on the Wise up blog post about the 3rd Anniversary Vigil outside the embassy.

[2015-05-21 03:00:03] <Emmy B> Seems she is happy to interact – Follow up would be good 🙂

[2015-05-21 06:40:52] <Cabledrum> Today’s court decision in my case has been postponed until tomorrow for technical reasons

[2015-05-21 06:41:17] <Cabledrum> There has been a “fairly final” decision in PC’s case, but I don’t know any details yet

[2015-05-21 08:18:56] <Cabledrum> Bad news: As it seems, the court has rejected PC’s claim

[2015-05-21 08:42:31] <Emmy B> Written explanation end of next week. Court said too complicated for a verbal explanation.

[2015-05-21 09:11:49] <LibertarianLibrarian> Sorry to hear that Cabledrummer – hope your case goes well tomorrow!

[2015-05-21 09:57:37] <WikiLeaks> Rejected under what basis?

[2015-05-21 10:03:12] <noll> how it could be rejected? MGT libeled PC & JA repeatedly, at this point it’s an easily provable fact.

[2015-05-21 10:55:26] <Cabledrum> WL: The court didn’t explain the decision in any way. We have to wait for the written reasons for the judgment

[2015-05-21 10:58:03] <Cabledrum> PC intends to appeal against the judgement by all means

[2015-05-21 11:02:49] <noll> re:

[2015-05-21 11:03:15] <noll> *where is

[2015-05-22 01:12:12] <noll> can we point this out again, Carr’s (v. important for Wls) testimony was on 31 July, but where is that day here:

[2015-05-22 01:53:19] <Emmy B> I don’t know how many time I have shared this but it is a must.

[2015-05-22 01:55:47] <Emmy B> Events that unfolded in 1944 in Greece, the ‘carving of influence btw Churchill/Stalin’ West enabling fascism (previously shared by H).

[2015-05-22 01:57:35] <Emmy B> If WL ever runs ‘The World Tomorrow’ again, invite Manolis Glezos, he won’t be with us forever 🙂

[2015-05-22 02:02:37] <Emmy B> SNP Secures Westminster Debate regarding Trident Thursday 28th

[2015-05-22 02:07:10] <WISE Up Wales> I’m working on a rush McNeilly/Trident flyer for tomorrow & Mon. Will share a generic version later in case anyone else can use.

[2015-05-22 02:32:10] <Bean> If you’d like me to give it a go, I’ve a couple of ‘spare’ hours tonight. Just email me bean[at]somersetbean[dot]com

[2015-05-22 02:37:29] <WISE Up Wales> Hey, thanks, but I’ve done what I need for tomorrow now., if I can get it to save as a pdf on old laptop where my very old dtp prog is…

[2015-05-22 02:37:55] <WISE Up Wales> …but I’m sure there’s a need for solidarity flyers people can print.

[2015-05-22 02:38:54] <WISE Up Wales> …properly designed, like! Did I imagine that you’re based in uk at present?

[2015-05-22 02:45:16] <Bean> No probs – I’m sure you’ve done it beautifully 🙂 But yes here of course for future materials! Another month, and I’m over there – Bristol.

[2015-05-22 04:32:26] <WISE Up Action> I’m looking to go to the Stand Up for Truth talk on 1st (Ellsberg, Drake, Radack et al) so will print some off if available. D

[2015-05-22 04:33:02] <WISE Up Action> Should say that I’m rubbish at designing my own!

[2015-05-22 04:41:50] <Emmy B> [Tweet] Short feedback by Deputy London Mayor Roger Evans on my enquiry to London Assembly here:

[2015-05-22 05:08:44] <Emmy B> who now follows me *scratching head*

[2015-05-22 05:49:14] <LibertarianLibrarian> It’s pretty amazing sometimes who will follow you on Twitter. 🙂

[2015-05-22 05:50:22] <LibertarianLibrarian> I wish I could afford to fly over for your upcoming events. Last summer in London was my travel budget for a couple of years.

[2015-05-22 05:50:37] <LibertarianLibrarian> But my heart’s with you and with Julian.

[2015-05-22 06:47:58] <Emmy B> Thank you Jenny we have started the campaign with good exposure so far, we have a great vigil last year and hope for the same this year <3

[2015-05-22 06:48:14] <Emmy B> Many thanks to everyone for the RTs !

[2015-05-22 06:49:26] <LibertarianLibrarian> I wish we didn’t need to keep having the vigils but last year’s was excellent and I think you’ll be just as strong this year.

[2015-05-22 06:50:27] <Emmy B> Thanks for the encouragement Jenny 🙂

[2015-05-22 07:17:18] <WISE Up Wales> Yeah, sure it will be excellent.

[2015-05-22 07:18:14] <WISE Up Wales> I’ve just posted this as a page on wise up. At present it’s not linked to a post…

William McNeilly

[2015-05-22 07:19:44] <WISE Up Wales> It’s got my hasty d-i-y flyer, which is also here:

[2015-05-22 07:32:32] <Emmy B> Wonderful work!

[2015-05-22 08:13:16] <Cabledrum> I still don’t have a court decision. The clerk’s office of the court was closed today for unknown reasons.

[2015-05-22 08:13:23] <Cabledrum> Monday is a bank holiday in Germany, so we have to wait until Tuesday

[2015-05-22 08:16:45] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s frustrating cabledrum, hang in there!

[2015-05-22 08:17:32] <LibertarianLibrarian> Nice, WiseupW!

[2015-05-22 08:25:56] <Emmy B> Bizarre!

[2015-05-22 11:54:10] <WikiLeaks> Are you able to bill MGT for the costs if you win, Cable?

[2015-05-22 11:58:58] <Emmy B> Hi everyone! I am off for a few days with limited access to wifi, will keep an eye but activity limited, back on Thursday 🙂

[2015-05-22 12:05:04] <LibertarianLibrarian> Enjoy your holiday, Emmy

[2015-05-22 12:59:08] <Emmy B> Thx Jenny!

[2015-05-22 15:42:24] <Cabledrum> WL: If I win, MGT has to pay my lawyer and the court costs, all in all approx. 3000 Euros, plus his own lawyer

[2015-05-22 18:19:22] <M> [Tweet] FYI

[2015-05-22 18:19:51] <M> I’m not a programming person, so I don’t know what this means or if it is fixable, but something to look at.

[2015-05-22 19:49:01] <Cabledrum> That message is not part of the website but part of the URL, harmless crap. Example:

[2015-05-22 19:55:17] <M> Right. I didn’t think it was harmful, but it seems like an odd thing to be able to do.

[2015-05-25 21:18:03] <Emmy B> @ h I don’t seem to find your post with fwlf defamatory tweets and can I include it in my post “Days and Works”?

[2015-05-26 03:27:52] <noll> Em, here:

[2015-05-26 03:30:09] <Emmy B> Great thanks!

[2015-05-26 06:28:08] <Cabledrum> The Frankfurt district court has annulled the preliminary injunction concerning the publication of [MGT]’s photo 🙂

[2015-05-26 06:31:55] <WikiLeaks> Congrats cable. Did you get a costs order, too?

[2015-05-26 06:31:56] <Cabledrum> The court seems to be completely overloaded. I still have to wait for the written reasons for the judgment “for one or two weeks”

[2015-05-26 06:35:24] <Cabledrum> No. MGT has to pay the court fees and the lawyers, since he lost

[2015-05-26 06:36:06] <WikiLeaks> Great. But who will collect the debt? You or the court?

[2015-05-26 06:37:02] <Cabledrum> But I’m afraid that he has a legal protection insurance, in contrast to me

[2015-05-26 06:39:00] <WikiLeaks> How does that work? Does he have it generally, who is paying for it? Or did he just pay extra for that case, as an insurance fee?

[2015-05-26 06:39:53] <Cabledrum> It’s 3 bills, one from the court and 2 from the lawyers. My lawyer already sent his bill to MGT today

[2015-05-26 06:41:20] <WikiLeaks> He may well not pay your lawyers bills, which would be good. Then they can use standard debt collection techniques to map out…

[2015-05-26 06:41:34] <WikiLeaks> his holdings and money flows.

[2015-05-26 06:42:33] <Cabledrum> I don’t know. Legal protection insurance is expensive. I guess, that he concluded an insurance after the PC case started

[2015-05-26 06:43:28] <Cabledrum> hmm, that’s a very long way, could take years

[2015-05-26 06:43:57] <WikiLeaks> He likely did so fraudulently if he paid for it himself. Insurance companies would want to know expected claims in advance.

[2015-05-26 06:44:33] <WikiLeaks> The fees would be so high as to not make it worthwhile if they knew all his pending legal actions.

[2015-05-26 06:48:03] <Cabledrum> yes, that’s why he sued me for the recent publications of his photo but ignored the publications of last year

[2015-05-26 06:57:06] <Cabledrum> Just for the records: MGT only lost the preliminary injunction now. The principal proceedings in this case goes on trial in October

[2015-05-26 08:01:45] <LibertarianLibrarian> It’s still a great beginning! Congrats Cabledum!

[2015-05-26 08:03:21] <LibertarianLibrarian> It would be interesting to know the cost of legal insurance in Germany, esp. for someone who doesn’t have a professional requirement for it.

[2015-05-26 08:04:10] <LibertarianLibrarian> In the states Doctors are basically required to have malpractice insurance and it costs them a lot. Probably some other fields as well.

[2015-05-26 08:05:19] <LibertarianLibrarian> I did have some legal insurance offered to me at the University of Florida, but it was basics, like rapid access to an attorney, lower fees.

[2015-05-26 08:05:37] <LibertarianLibrarian> SUNY doesn’t offer it.

[2015-05-26 08:08:09] <LibertarianLibrarian> Bet he’s paying and arm & a leg for it. Be nice to know how much – indicates he knows he’s doing stuff to land him in court & lose.

[2015-05-26 08:08:47] <LibertarianLibrarian> Also wonder if he’s being ‘helped’.

[2015-05-26 08:09:55] <LibertarianLibrarian> But I agree, if you win in October, best to get your costs paid ASAP before he wiggles out and/or the insurance co. drops him.

[2015-05-26 08:51:06] <WikiLeaks> What is the name of the company providing legal insurance?

[2015-05-26 10:06:50] <Emmy B> Congratulations Cabledrummer!

[2015-05-26 11:51:25] <Cabledrum> WL: It’s just an assumption that MGT has a legal insurance. I have no idea which one it might be.

[2015-05-26 13:02:49] <noll> congrats Cables, hope main event goes as well. any news re reasoning behinds PC judgement?

[2015-05-26 13:06:07] <Emmy B> Chris has asked me for absolute discretion in the next few weeks/months regarding her case as she escalates her efforts.

[2015-05-26 13:07:01] <noll> understood.

[2015-05-26 13:08:08] <Emmy B> There is a long road till conclusive outcome is reached. I am trying to assist with gathering evidence, offering support. Patience everyone.

[2015-05-26 13:08:14] <Emmy B> <3

[2015-05-26 13:18:18] <LibertarianLibrarian> Absolutely, Emmy.

[2015-05-26 13:22:00] <Emmy B> Thank you very much!

[2015-05-26 14:17:46] <WISE Up Action> Wls FYI whistleblower seminar in Stockholm June 5

[2015-05-27 06:08:07] <LibertarianLibrarian> Is there a single link to the TPP chapters released by Wikileaks? Be useful for tweeting at Congress.

[2015-05-27 06:11:26] <WikiLeaks> No, but you can construct a search.

[2015-05-27 06:43:49] <LibertarianLibrarian> Will do, thanks!

[2015-05-27 22:03:03] <Cabledrum> “The Magic of Fresh Content on your Web Site” by Mark [GT], Feb 2007 🙂

[2015-05-28 05:30:05] <Emmy B> If someone knows how to create a URL to point to a particular time in a video please share xxx

[2015-05-28 05:32:12] <Emmy B> @ Cabledrummer I came across this article and similar other regarding MGT pre-forum activity as a seo expert when he created a fwlf page

[2015-05-28 05:37:35] <Emmy B> in google plus

[2015-05-28 05:38:38] <Emmy B> all singing and dancing and he had his name and photo in the pages circles there ([MGT]). This is how I learnt his name.

[2015-05-28 06:20:52] <Emmy B> Very Important I think if someone can capture this section of the video Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe answers London Assembly’s questions regarding

[2015-05-28 06:21:36] <Emmy B> the guarding of the Ecuadorian Embassy (I don’t know how to do it) maybe @ M can add it to ‘This day in WL’ – don’t know but maybe can be

[2015-05-28 06:21:58] <Emmy B> used especially when he is talking about the embarrassment factor:

[2015-05-28 06:22:25] <Emmy B>

[2015-05-28 06:23:16] <Emmy B> Go to 1 hour and 51 minutes in the BBC i-Player video, it goes on to 1 hour 56 minutes.

[2015-05-28 06:24:51] <Emmy B> The video is available on i-player (UK TV license holding) for 28 days. If u cannot access it, maybe someone can tell me how to do it. Thx!

[2015-05-28 06:26:20] <Emmy B> Video might be also useful in quotes to add to the govwaste website.

[2015-05-28 07:13:01] <noll> “Frankfurt district court annuls prelim’ injunction re [MGT] photo: #Wlsup

[2015-05-28 07:13:58] <noll> 3:38 PM – 26 May 2015 / has been censored.

[2015-05-28 07:18:57] <noll> Em, under player window on right, there’s download button – if you can stand to install/ remove: BBC iPlayer Downloads..

[2015-05-28 07:27:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> Emmy, take a look at this – I got it from YouTube so I didn’t do set up the links myself, but they may help:

[2015-05-28 07:28:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> Then again, they may not work at all. 🙁

[2015-05-28 07:30:17] <LibertarianLibrarian> Not sure if I messed up the links or if the time listings are just an advice, not real internal video links. Sorry!

[2015-05-28 09:36:00] <Cabledrum> hazel: Has Twitter notified you in any way or has the tweet just disappeared?

[2015-05-28 10:10:02] <noll> hi Cables, Twitter required mobile number & code just to find out why account was frozen, after which tweet was disappeared (we tried to –

[2015-05-28 10:12:32] <noll> – archive but it had already gone), we then had to delete something that was already deleted. to get that kind of service – MGT must have

[2015-05-28 10:13:22] <noll> – sent himself remarkably imaginative threats.

[2015-05-28 10:30:32] <Cabledrum> Strange! Twitter didn’t ask me to remove my tweets, they are still online. Due to the court decision there is no legal reason to remove them

[2015-05-28 10:41:20] <WikiLeaks> Emmy B, re, video, the breakin?

[2015-05-28 11:31:19] <Emmy B> @ WL sorry I don’t understand 🙂

[2015-05-28 12:12:33] <noll> Cables, we know, but there’s no space to question whatever claims MGT made within process, would have to send in (likely ignored) complaint.

[2015-05-28 12:17:11] <noll> Em, um..

[2015-05-28 12:18:37] <noll> – it’s impossible to recommend anything.

[2015-05-28 12:31:39] <noll> (Em, we hv no idea what that means!) Cables, jtlyk we’re free to start MGT/ Steinitz after 31, will be in touch./ also, will Supernerds be –

[2015-05-28 12:32:54] <noll> – be posted, or streams remain up after the show? just dipped in, looks v. good.

[2015-05-28 12:52:51] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, couldn’t access while at work, but very much want to see Supernerds.

[2015-05-28 13:28:46] <Emmy B> Greek breakin

[2015-05-28 16:39:29] <Emmy B> Big relief all around 🙂 I have found a solution to my recording issue so there will be no need for any sort of breakin, what so ever 🙂

[2015-05-28 16:39:55] <LibertarianLibrarian> 🙂

[2015-05-28 16:40:42] <Emmy B> heh

[2015-05-29 07:03:08] <LibertarianLibrarian> Add @ascorbic to WLtrolls list. I’m about to block.

[2015-05-29 09:39:26] <Emmy B> Check out his public lists Jenny, he is an interesting one… I will start another list, for our info and put his name on… next to Heather

[2015-05-29 09:39:42] <Emmy B> brook, and David Allen Green…

[2015-05-29 09:40:05] <Emmy B> I will take a closer look at him over the weekend xx

[2015-05-29 10:15:46] <LibertarianLibrarian> OK! He was spouting their traditional nonsense, but he did stop sooner than I expected – went away on his own. 🙂

[2015-05-30 04:47:09] <noll> can someone else remind Bella not to feed Bolt’s “sorcery” obsessions (we’re tried & failed several times).

[2015-05-30 09:40:31] <WikiLeaks> WikiLeaks is riding high in germany and will continue to for the next few months, so it’s a good time for cases there.

[2015-05-30 09:40:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> Sorcery? Seriously?

[2015-05-30 09:41:55] <WikiLeaks> Not feeding the trolls seems to have worked quite well.

[2015-05-30 09:42:04] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s awesome! I know SuperNerds was amazing plus the new releases. Hope it means good things for Cable and P’s cases.

[2015-05-30 09:42:46] <WikiLeaks> The combination of WL doing well, and very few engaging with them, seems to have left them moribund.

[2015-05-30 09:43:00] <LibertarianLibrarian> I suspect it’s always good to avoid feeding the trolls, much like alligators or tribbles.

[2015-05-30 09:43:02] <WikiLeaks> So it’s annoying that Bella is feeding some.

[2015-05-30 09:44:39] <LibertarianLibrarian> It’s tough not to avoid responding when someone spouts off idiocy. I shouldn’t have gotten into it with one yesterday but sometimes you’re

[2015-05-30 09:44:48] <LibertarianLibrarian> not sure at first.

[2015-05-30 09:47:08] <LibertarianLibrarian> Some people just have swallowed propaganda and can be reasoned with bit others, not. May take a few tweets to tell the difference.

[2015-05-30 09:47:23] <LibertarianLibrarian> Bit = but

[2015-05-30 09:48:52] <LibertarianLibrarian> Anyway, congrats on SuperNerds and all the recent releases! It’s been great to see so many people picking up on the new data.

[2015-05-30 10:40:52] <Emmy B> <3 Bella <3

[2015-05-30 11:10:49] <WISE Up Action> Anyone seen / heard any more from Steinitz?

[2015-05-30 12:56:28] <noll> interesting article:

[2015-05-30 16:18:36] <WikiLeaks> We think she’s too stupid to be much of a threat.

[2015-05-31 10:14:49] <Emmy B> [Media-image] I don’t know why this particular tweet of mine would be favoured by so many spam accounts, any ideas?

[2015-05-31 10:15:18] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-05-31 12:39:50] <Emmy B> [Media-image] Even more spammers favour this tweet, what is twitter like?

[2015-05-31 13:58:10] <LibertarianLibrarian> Don’t know. Sometimes is just takes one RT to get others to copy. I’ve got a bunch of random accounts following me, no idea why.

[2015-05-31 13:59:10] <LibertarianLibrarian> Thought about cleaning them out but then figured I wouldn’t bother. Do need to clean out who I am following at some pt.

[2015-05-31 13:59:43] <LibertarianLibrarian> Some ppl follow just to get their stats up, I think.

[2015-05-31 14:19:57] <Emmy B> I think you are right!

[2015-05-31 16:16:18] <noll> @RandPaul is at it again:

[2015-05-31 16:24:01] <noll>

[2015-05-31 23:56:28] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-06-01 05:51:18] <LibertarianLibrarian> Considering the source that’s a rather nice compliment for the Senator from Kentucky. LOL

[2015-06-01 17:20:42] <Cabledrum> I’ve just received the written reasons for the judgement on the annulment of the injunction. It says almost nothing.

[2015-06-01 17:20:47] <Cabledrum> A preliminary injunction requires urgency and the only reason for the annulment is the lack of urgency in this case.

[2015-06-01 17:21:04] <Cabledrum> The court has neither judged whether the publication of his photo is a violation of MGT’s rights nor whether he is responsible for FWLF.

[2015-06-01 17:21:16] <Cabledrum> This judgements are deferred until the principal proceedings in October.

[2015-06-01 17:22:08] <LibertarianLibrarian> That makes sense, still good to see his injunction removed.

[2015-06-01 17:23:47] <WikiLeaks> Big day tomorrow for WL. Prepare to fight lots of fun wars.

[2015-06-01 17:43:48] <noll> another one, or big as in Kerry cycling round world apologising? either way, look forward to whatever’s next.

[2015-06-01 17:47:19] <noll> Cables, if it’s no longer deemed urgent – that must indicate court no longer fully believes? we still don’t understand PC verdict, would be

[2015-06-01 17:48:20] <noll> – good to have some kind of overview of that decision at some point/ when poss’.

[2015-06-01 18:00:19] <Cabledrum> MGT falsely claimed that he wasn’t aware of the publication of his photo before January 2015.

[2015-06-01 18:00:22] <Cabledrum> He forgot that he demanded the removal of this photo already in April 2014, by written letter.

[2015-06-01 18:00:27] <Cabledrum> This is the ONLY reason why the court has annulled the injunction.

[2015-06-01 18:00:54] <Cabledrum> PC’s case: I have no update yet. She is still waiting for the written reasons of judgement.

[2015-06-02 01:08:26] <Emmy B> @ WL on the edge of our seat as usual 🙂

[2015-06-02 01:11:11] <Emmy B> @ CD 1. He wants to run u dry of money 2. seek legal advise re fresh publications. MGT’s photo is out there already, job done! 3. we should

[2015-06-02 01:11:47] <Emmy B> look to crowdsource funds! Very important.

[2015-06-02 02:33:20] <Emmy B> OOps what do I read? see final paragraph

[2015-06-02 06:32:05] <noll> latest certainly raises host for question too obvious to bother listing, expect for largest, will 100k (forever) taint mantra of public

[2015-06-02 06:34:19] <noll> – service whistleblowing? if leak comes this way, ‘greed motive’ will be used by adversaries – forever, regardless of whether justified.

[2015-06-02 06:37:23] <noll> – this motive argument will also impact cases (incl. Manning appeal) via enhancing or generating soliciting claims.

[2015-06-02 06:43:32] <WikiLeaks> Yes. But then those questions will become boring and we will announce the next prize and the next one and the next one…

[2015-06-02 06:51:51] <noll> means will also become boring unless accompanied by an end, & then they’re stuck w/ each other. but, if can push leaks to domino a bit?..

[2015-06-02 06:53:12] <noll> it’s risky. but what isn’t.

[2015-06-02 06:53:42] <WikiLeaks> Each prize has a different demographic and campaigns can be started quickly off the back off major stories (e.g torture report).

[2015-06-02 06:54:23] <WikiLeaks> Yes. World wide freedom of the press is closing, so we decided to buck the trend and aggressively push in the other direction.

[2015-06-02 07:25:24] <noll> agree, hatches are being battened down everywhere, one would think there is a storm approaching.

[2015-06-02 07:32:54] <noll> [Tweet] nytimes writes up ‘Russia’s “industrialized” trolls’ story, applicable everywhere, ie. Savchuk = Sandra & so on.

[2015-06-02 07:45:18] <noll> McConnell attacking #USAFreedomAct:

[2015-06-02 07:57:47] <noll>

[2015-06-02 07:59:59] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-02 08:00:36] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-02 08:01:46] <M> Still offline for you? Works for me.

[2015-06-02 08:04:26] <noll> M, we’re seeing: “Internal Server Error” on Chrome, “The website cannot display the page” on Explorer, but Tor is working fine.

[2015-06-02 08:04:33] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-06-02 08:04:45] <Emmy B> is this right?

[2015-06-02 08:04:59] <Emmy B> or is it spamming?

[2015-06-02 08:05:27] <noll> spam: “$22940.05 pledged so far by 40 people.

22.94005 Goal

23% complete out of $100000″

[2015-06-02 08:09:45] <WikiLeaks> Human bug in our checking bitcoin transactions. All transactions over a certain amount are manually verified.

[2015-06-02 08:10:27] <noll> pledge page is back online.

[2015-06-02 08:11:37] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-02 08:31:48] <Emmy B> Not just now cause i am busy but later this evening I will tweet to :

[2015-06-02 08:32:54] <WikiLeaks> Great list emmy. Be helpful if others use that too.

[2015-06-02 08:34:53] <Emmy B> Thanks! yes please everyone feel free to use it, will add to it tonight 🙂

[2015-06-02 09:22:03] <LibertarianLibrarian> Cool, after work today I’ll join in. Just made a pledge myself.

[2015-06-02 09:24:53] <LibertarianLibrarian> I may be a bit slow responding to things for a bit. Looks like I’m going to have to undergo surgery soon. Ugh. Bear with me.

[2015-06-02 09:52:02] <WikiLeaks> Jenny, that must be very annoying. Our best wishes for you.

[2015-06-02 09:59:44] <noll> best wishes Jen xx

[2015-06-02 10:11:10] <LibertarianLibrarian> Thank you!

[2015-06-02 10:41:05] <Emmy B> <3

[2015-06-02 14:03:55] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-06-02 16:17:02] <noll> does anyone know if vid or audio of StandUpForTruth was taken/ will be made available?/ Em, WSJ omits everything negative re TPP, but then..

[2015-06-02 16:19:10] <noll> – somehow – with those last quotes – seems to speak out against censoring negotiations (which it also says are ‘nothing to here’).

[2015-06-02 16:19:15] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet]

[2015-06-02 16:34:35] <noll> thanks! & yep, if you see film posted pls let us know.

[2015-06-03 08:27:26] <noll>

[2015-06-03 09:24:56] <Emmy B> No british publication approaches the fact that spying on foreign governments is simply that. Obama is happy to use the espionage act to

[2015-06-03 09:26:40] <Emmy B> prosecute and persecute whistleblowers but NSA/GCHQ commit espionage daily. Now we read about aggrement to make it all easy and legal.

[2015-06-03 09:31:09] <Emmy B> what are small countries like Greece to do?, Malta? Cyprus? it is insufferable!

[2015-06-03 10:04:03] <Emmy B>

[2015-06-03 10:04:37] <Emmy B> Public List of WL TISA Release Partners 🙂

[2015-06-03 11:24:01] <noll> & then the “Guardian staff” (trust us, you don’t need to see the docs) ‘report’ on Wls’ “document dump”

[2015-06-03 11:26:39] <WikiLeaks> At least they linked.

[2015-06-03 11:38:34] <noll> progress of a sort.

[2015-06-03 11:39:18] <noll> bet there are 5-eyes clauses in all three.

[2015-06-03 11:45:38] <WikiLeaks> Likely.

[2015-06-03 13:31:34] <Emmy B> poor guy

[2015-06-03 13:31:52] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-06-03 13:32:09] <Emmy B> another in need of asylum

[2015-06-03 16:21:17] <noll> Erdoğan is repulsive. Here’s the article (only one capture before being taken down):

[2015-06-03 16:42:08] <noll>

[2015-06-03 16:54:43] <WikiLeaks> Do you see a copy of the video?

[2015-06-03 17:06:13] <noll> here:

[2015-06-03 19:10:55] <noll> #mostwanted2015: policy docs of 2007/9 switch from radical emissions reduction to geoengineering, unquestionably greatest gamble in history.

[2015-06-04 04:49:21] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-04 05:54:35] <noll> [Tweet] it’s a problem/ embarrassment: “[when ‘left’ or whatever] slips from specious bombast into clear falsehood”.

[2015-06-04 06:35:39] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s always true, HazelP, left, right, or anyone. The specious bombasting is dangerous enough, esp. when public buys into it.

[2015-06-04 07:03:48] <noll> section re “IBC’s work w/ Wikileaks”:

[2015-06-04 07:04:45] <noll> *shame

[2015-06-04 07:07:35] <noll> – & it’s (ironically in this case) usually driven by funding. lancet survey seems, just going on history of these things, to be closer to

[2015-06-04 07:08:23] <noll> – the mark.

[2015-06-04 08:39:36] <LibertarianLibrarian> The reporting of “COI” (Conflict of Interest) in medical and scientific literature is a big issue, particularly the reporting of funding.

[2015-06-04 08:40:55] <LibertarianLibrarian> In most cases, the concern centers around pharmaceutical and biotech company funding and author involvement with the companies.

[2015-06-04 08:42:15] <LibertarianLibrarian> Looking at funding and COI is one of the things I include when teaching how to evaluate the published literature and clinical trials.

[2015-06-04 08:43:30] <LibertarianLibrarian> But there’s paying attention to potential COI and then there’s absurd attacks meant to hurt someone, looks like this case is the latter.

[2015-06-04 08:45:50] <LibertarianLibrarian> Getting government funding may/may not be a conflict, depending on a number of variables. In evaluating study bias, I look for disclosure.

[2015-06-04 08:48:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> Now, you almost always see disclosures required. Some institutions have banned drug company ‘swag’ for doctors and clinical personnel.

[2015-06-04 08:50:04] <LibertarianLibrarian> If you get external funding, honorariums, etc., to give a speech/presentation or other things, most academics have to report it.

[2015-06-04 08:51:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> But I haven’t seen that for government funding, though it’s certainly an issue. I know Julian wrote an interesting article on it years ago.

[2015-06-04 08:52:50] <LibertarianLibrarian> But most US govt agencies funding research require reporting their support and public access to resulting articles. Well, the ‘normal ones’.

[2015-06-04 08:53:53] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’d bet that there’s CIA/NSA/DOD/etc. funding that remains hidden. It’s the NIH/NSF/DOE/CDC/etc. that requires public access & reporting.

[2015-06-04 09:36:10] <noll> Jen, agree re COI points, & yes, US pharma is awful. re non-slanted reporting, here’s crux & Ahmed can’t answer it:

[2015-06-04 10:04:31] <noll> whilst on ‘reporting + distortions = propaganda’ topic, would be great if WLP finally sorted out posting policy.

[2015-06-04 10:05:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, there’s a problem if he can’t show direct funding/influence for specific work. If their disclosures are open then the reader can decide

[2015-06-04 10:07:45] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yeah, they’re not always consistent. But political parties are a nightmare at any time. My last Libertarian Party mtg degenerated into chaos

[2015-06-04 10:11:20] <noll> Jen, he’s missing point entirely? isn’t issue conformity to cosy cliques? & funding – what’s that to you/ you’re group if you’re ostracised?

[2015-06-04 10:16:36] <LibertarianLibrarian> Not quite sure I know what you mean. RE conformity to cliques – that’s a common & sad human behavior. People will swallow a lot to belong.

[2015-06-04 10:18:02] <LibertarianLibrarian> Not sure what funding has to do with being ostracized, except that you can find it hard to get funded if going against accepted norms.

[2015-06-04 10:20:04] <noll> yes, mean that all these groups (IBC etc) operate in closed circles. / completely agree, all the same, would be good if WLP uped their game.

[2015-06-04 10:26:55] <noll> re IBC: bias also socially driven – & when not funded direct, there’s future funding, job, contacts, that exclusive dinner invite etc.

[2015-06-04 10:29:59] <noll> there’s a great story there, but unfortunately (& typically) Ahmed seems to have signed up elsewhere.

[2015-06-04 10:33:01] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-04 10:36:44] <Emmy B> @ WL “You are a winner” Well done! this achievement will give hope to many and courage to even more <3

[2015-06-04 10:37:56] <Emmy B> Well I take all that back after chasing that button all around the screen!!!!!! ;-p

[2015-06-04 10:38:51] <Emmy B> and again ;-p

[2015-06-04 10:39:13] <noll> haha

[2015-06-04 13:53:57] <Emmy B> 🙂 should we believe all that we see? 🙂

[2015-06-04 14:23:20] <noll> Wls again dragged into IBC/ Ahmed/ COI conflict:

[2015-06-04 14:24:48] <noll> – or maybe not:

[2015-06-04 14:28:04] <noll> – to do quick accuracy checks on Ahmed’s work here & in previous ‘Insurge intelligence’ articles – quite a change in quality, COI?

[2015-06-04 14:28:30] <LibertarianLibrarian> LOL – Glad I’m not the only one who chased that button all over the place! 🙂

[2015-06-04 14:31:11] <LibertarianLibrarian> It would take a good bit of work to go through the various articles and check actual funding and policies. Funding doesn’t always = COI.

[2015-06-04 14:32:39] <LibertarianLibrarian> Sometimes it’s just necessity. But it could make a good subject for an objective journalist to track where many of these NGOs get funds.

[2015-06-04 14:33:06] <LibertarianLibrarian> And what influences they are under and which ones bow to those influences and which ones don’t.

[2015-06-04 15:13:21] <noll> w/ COI & journalism – levels of child-like bias/ ignorance/ idiocy on all sides (incl the subject) seems a. beyond absurd & b. never greater

[2015-06-04 15:34:51] <LibertarianLibrarian> There’s always an observer bias of some kind. It’s inescapable. The key is to 1. recognize you have it & 2. Admit/disclose it.

[2015-06-04 15:35:56] <LibertarianLibrarian> And the reader’s responsibility is to read critically and evaluate how much bias and how much influence.

[2015-06-04 15:36:55] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s why I love Julian’s idea of scientific journalism – making source documents openly available so interpretive stories can be checked.

[2015-06-04 18:03:20] <noll> agree, it one of JA best moments (has a great little Wikipedia entry:

[2015-06-05 07:21:21] <M> Rusbridger attacks JA in exit interview: ‘As for JA, he hasn’t spent the last few years in exile because of anything to do with publishing.’

[2015-06-05 07:21:25] <M>

[2015-06-05 09:08:06] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet]

[2015-06-05 09:31:33] <noll> Thomas Quick report – Claes Borgström mentioned 102 times:

[2015-06-05 10:21:25] <Cabledrum> bing, bing, bing: 50% reached

[2015-06-05 10:36:55] <noll> if copy/ paste page 337/ 8 into Google translate, it’s quite damning of Claes, while at same time no way near as damning as should be.

[2015-06-05 10:48:54] <LibertarianLibrarian> Those two pages didn’t mention him when I looked at them, but he’s certainly mentioned throughout (by using ‘find’).

[2015-06-05 10:49:03] <LibertarianLibrarian> Awesome re the 50%!

[2015-06-05 10:51:04] <noll> sorry, it’s pages 377/ 8.

[2015-06-05 10:51:38] <LibertarianLibrarian> Wow – that’s particularly nasty from Sandra, not that I’m surprised. I blocked her so may not be able to respond which is probably good.

[2015-06-05 10:51:52] <LibertarianLibrarian> I wouldn’t be polite.

[2015-06-05 11:11:05] <M> English summary of Quick report with comments from Anne Ramberg, Thomas Olsson, Claes Borgström

[2015-06-05 11:25:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> Of course Borgstrom refuses to take responsibility for his failures. Looks like Olsson’s getting plenty of experience cleaning up after him.

[2015-06-05 13:02:19] <WikiLeaks> Emmy, we appreciate the effort, but not helpful to feed the Eckersley troll like that (your anaysis).

[2015-06-05 13:02:54] <WikiLeaks> SE’s article was poorly written, obviously biases, and on a website with no credibility.

[2015-06-05 13:04:10] <WikiLeaks> i.e it didn’t need to be addressed. Now it’s on your website and SE can claim more earnings for her work or otherwise feel like she exists.

[2015-06-05 13:05:22] <WikiLeaks> We have a series of wonderful publications this month that touch on every economic sector of most of the world.

[2015-06-05 13:05:58] <WikiLeaks> So there’s lots to be gained in a positive approach and if you want to whack someone for sport, then we suggest…

[2015-06-05 13:06:45] <WikiLeaks> …those prominent figures who are pro-TISA/TPP, since they’re positional opponents anyway and we might make friends with their enemies.

[2015-06-05 13:07:04] <Emmy B> I agree with your assessment regarding the SE article, it was not my analysis but a friend asked if I could host her article and I accepted.

[2015-06-05 13:07:32] <Emmy B> as she hasn’t got her own blog

[2015-06-05 13:08:18] <WikiLeaks> SE is in the gutter. Tell her to aim higher.

[2015-06-05 13:08:45] <Emmy B> *sigh*

[2015-06-05 13:10:40] <Emmy B> yes, sorry

[2015-06-05 13:51:32] <noll> first FOI is in:

[2015-06-05 13:57:43] <noll> – bother to answer whether used at Ecu embassy – which may, or may not imply NS response made solely to avoid answering 2nd question,

[2015-06-05 13:58:59] <noll> – ie. police gadgets aren’t usually involved in NS issues, unless of course – they are etc.

[2015-06-05 14:40:59] <WISE Up Wales> Use of ‘neither confirm nor deny’ is v suspect. eg in spycops case

[2015-06-05 14:42:50] <WISE Up Wales> … in court the evidence that undercover cop was an undercover cop, while still refusing to confirm that he was one.

[2015-06-05 14:45:38] <WISE Up Wales> More:

[2015-06-05 23:04:45] <WISE Up Action> H: there is video of stand up for truth here, but the audio quality deteriorates

[2015-06-06 04:53:34] <noll> Action, thanks, “deteriorates [until could be used as torture]..” / apparently: “You’ve all been bamboozled”

[2015-06-06 17:34:05] <noll> Wachowski’s latest:

[2015-06-06 17:35:13] <noll> – doesn’t shift gears till 3rd episode.

[2015-06-06 22:03:46] <M> As far as fake articles go, this one was pretty cute:

[2015-06-07 03:57:27] <Emmy B> I like it, imagine now, if such an activity was to feature in Supernerds!…some headlines? 😀 lovely thought to start our day!

[2015-06-07 05:56:20] <noll> how fitting – a war criminal testified against CM (w/ fake evidence)?

[2015-06-08 05:50:23] <noll> 2nd FOI is in.

[2015-06-08 05:52:20] <Emmy B> Bless you, good work!

[2015-06-08 05:52:48] <Emmy B> I will be writing to the London Assembly again, who else should I write to? any ideas?

[2015-06-08 05:54:23] <noll> (you can download FOI PDFs from ‘FOI archive’ at bottom of pages). thanks Em :o) maybe new SNP MPs?

[2015-06-08 05:56:30] <noll> Em, HO will not answer/ give info’ about individual cases, we just asked to make a point.

[2015-06-08 05:59:10] <Emmy B> good idea about SNP, Caroline Lucas too, it is time to do so.

[2015-06-08 06:06:28] <WikiLeaks> If you watch the Trident debate in Parliament, you will see that Alex Salmond cites WikiLeaks as the publisher.

[2015-06-08 06:06:55] <WikiLeaks> That’s important because it means WL is in Salmond’s brain.

[2015-06-08 08:01:42] <Emmy B> I went to the Public gallery at Westminster and listened to that debate. Indeed it was a pleasure to hear A. Salmond attributing WL and

[2015-06-08 08:03:21] <Emmy B> the Scottish Herald for making public McNeilly’s disclosure.

[2015-06-08 08:04:29] <Emmy B> I will write to them. Twitter has its limitations and I have the trolls at my heals. Better to write.

[2015-06-08 10:25:03] <noll> Actions, beginning to look like @carlbildt’s “it’s not allowed” wasn’t only referring to Swe excuses.

[2015-06-08 10:34:09] <noll> Em, if you need to rip audio, try:

[2015-06-08 10:36:43] <Emmy B> Thank you very much.

[2015-06-08 10:38:42] <noll> we’re building up little audio library:

[2015-06-08 14:55:48] <M> Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Tony Blair among those who asked for leniency for Petraeus

[2015-06-08 15:00:58] <Emmy B> Thanks for sharing!

[2015-06-08 15:02:40] <LibertarianLibrarian> Graham too. Can’t believe he’s running for President, utter moron. Though he has to fight with Rubio & Santorum for the idiots’ crown.

[2015-06-08 15:03:38] <LibertarianLibrarian> Feinstein is a clear case for term limits on Senators. What are people thinking?

[2015-06-08 15:15:03] <WikiLeaks> Omidyar’s largest ever recorded political donation was to Feinstein.

[2015-06-08 15:16:48] <Emmy B> He plays it seems a very curious game with the ‘new look etc’ but I don’t understand a lot about USpol.

[2015-06-08 15:43:27] <noll> if anyone wants to know what’s beyond Omidyar’s 1% of SN docs, suggest:

[2015-06-09 09:13:53] <noll> May 2012 – SC ‘Vienna ruling’ against JA:

[2015-06-09 10:07:17] <Cabledrum> [Tweet] I’ve just learned that in fact there has been a whistleblowing article in the German law, from 1951 until 1968

[2015-06-09 10:07:28] <Cabledrum> It roughly stated: When a member of the German parliament reveals a state secret to the public, this is not an illegal act …

[2015-06-09 10:07:31] <Cabledrum> … provided that he intends to prevent a breach of a constitutional law this way

[2015-06-09 10:07:47] <Cabledrum> (Sadly, my English is insufficient for an accurate translation.)

[2015-06-09 10:11:24] <WikiLeaks> Killed in 1968?

[2015-06-09 10:26:00] <Cabledrum> Yes it got deleted in 1968

[2015-06-09 10:29:03] <noll> what happened in ’68?

[2015-06-09 10:32:07] <Cabledrum> It has been mentioned by Mr. Foschepoth at the “Digital Surveillance State” event on Sunday

[2015-06-09 10:33:01] <noll> thanks, will check it out.

[2015-06-09 10:34:33] <Cabledrum> hazel: In 1968, the German Emergency Acts (“Notstandsgesetze”) took place

[2015-06-09 11:08:37] <Emmy B> Maybe it is worth seeing this move in the historic context of the cold war

[2015-06-09 11:15:14] <Emmy B> Meanwhile in Greece of the colonels:

[2015-06-09 11:18:29] <Emmy B> @ CD “According to Article 10 of the Grundgesetz, limitations may be placed on privacy of correspondence, confidentiality of telecom…” hmm

[2015-06-09 12:08:28] <noll> does anyone know if film/ audio of JA’s South Bank talk exists?

[2015-06-09 12:09:42] <Emmy B> I haven’t come across one yet

[2015-06-09 12:12:04] <noll> ’68 see from 08:13

[2015-06-09 12:16:35] <Emmy B> OTT I know 🙂

[2015-06-09 12:56:30] <noll>–/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/6/9/1433874476983/d706c15c-e113-432c-a4c3-1a303699b073-620×425.jpeg

[2015-06-09 14:49:22] <noll> small but important addition:

[2015-06-09 15:09:36] <noll> Wikipedia is now following Syria battle in real-time via “UK based SOHR”..

[2015-06-10 04:50:53] <noll>

[2015-06-10 04:51:37] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-10 04:51:46] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-10 04:51:54] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-10 04:54:46] <noll> why do we have feeling above is link to ideology behind #TPP #TTIP #TISA? also, any hashtag ideas for the three?

[2015-06-10 05:07:53] <WISE Up Action> Just shared that story with folks at work and they actually laughed it off as a joke or from a spoof website….er…

[2015-06-10 05:10:48] <noll> um..

[2015-06-10 05:34:58] <noll> amazing/ telling that big pharma finds it necessary to blasting that at UK govt.

[2015-06-10 05:43:54] <noll> #TPP #TTIP #TISA #TPPTTIPTISA

[2015-06-10 05:57:31] <WISE Up Action> Was thinking of tag around Secrecy / SecretTrade but can sound too general

[2015-06-10 06:15:04] <LibertarianLibrarian> A #SecretTreaties tag wouldn’t be bad to combine with the others.

[2015-06-10 08:38:22] <noll> Jen, agree. #TPPTTIPTISA #SecretTreaties #GlobalTreaty etc

[2015-06-10 08:38:37] <Emmy B> #TradeSecrets (already exists) #TradeTraps

[2015-06-10 08:38:55] <Emmy B> @ WL amazing! 🙂

[2015-06-10 08:40:46] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-10 08:43:48] <Emmy B> #TradeTriad

[2015-06-10 08:43:57] <Emmy B> a group of three

[2015-06-10 08:44:42] <Emmy B> (would match the pretty triangle)

[2015-06-10 08:47:44] <noll> that’s great, sort of goes w/:

[2015-06-10 08:50:06] <Emmy B> & ahm…

[2015-06-10 08:51:30] <Emmy B> Excellent!

[2015-06-10 08:52:39] <noll> haha couldn’t be more fitting.

[2015-06-10 08:53:10] <noll>

[2015-06-10 08:55:55] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-06-10 08:57:23] <Emmy B> It is the best idea to link TTP TTIP TiSA into a triad as WL has done, look how many groups only focus on one or the other treaty

[2015-06-10 08:59:07] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-06-10 09:09:38] <noll> we’ve emailed idea to @GeorgeMonbiot.

[2015-06-10 09:16:05] <noll> does anyone know who Jonathan Simon is? he’s send us idiotic emails re JA case.

[2015-06-10 09:19:01] <Emmy B> I do not no.

[2015-06-10 09:20:40] <WISE Up Action> Nor me.

[2015-06-10 09:24:06] <noll> thought might be:

[2015-06-10 09:32:53] <WISE Up Action> Now wound up thanks to Ken Clarke. Thanks H! 🙂

[2015-06-10 09:43:28] <noll> haha sorry! should have seen us day Nigel Lawson turned up here to explain climate change actually good b/c UK will produce more wine.

[2015-06-10 09:53:52] <Emmy B> have you seen UK olives? green and horrid (sorry)

[2015-06-10 09:58:04] <noll> never even heard of them! (or tried UK wine). / so, what could JA expect if delivered to the US?

[2015-06-10 13:37:47] <noll> IBC/ Lancet argue over the dead – really highlights importance of Manning’s whistleblowing:

[2015-06-10 15:24:33] <Emmy B> It is great to see straight away Academics on board WL release analysis rather than getting papers report what lobbies & politicians (always

[2015-06-10 15:26:14] <Emmy B> ready with a quote spinning their way) want to project on the public. Good approach in setting the real agenda, also easy for most journos

[2015-06-10 15:26:21] <Emmy B> to report 🙂

[2015-06-10 17:04:30] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-06-10 17:04:46] <Emmy B> @ WL this article is from 2014!!!

[2015-06-10 17:09:28] <Emmy B> Guardian’s latest article is from the 3rd of June covering WL TISA and previous TPP releases

[2015-06-10 17:09:59] <Emmy B> They haven’t yet covered Health chapter…I keep looking 🙂

[2015-06-10 17:20:59] <Emmy B> What on Earth is this article about I have no idea it claims WL hosted stuff and then deleted it – disinfo? or a joke

[2015-06-10 17:48:34] <M> It’s about an ‘alternate reality game’

[2015-06-10 17:49:03] <M> [Tweet] As far as the WL stuff goes, it’s bullshit:

[2015-06-11 09:18:10] <Emmy B> It is time for WL to write a cypherpunk volume II I think, there is a lot that is commonly known through the Snowden revelations and it is

[2015-06-11 09:19:24] <Emmy B> important that they come together and made sense of, given voice for the professional bodies legal/medical/political to start realising the

[2015-06-11 09:21:07] <Emmy B> issue/s and the general public too, a book that will verbalise in political speak, in legal speak, social, educational speak where we are &

[2015-06-11 09:21:55] <Emmy B> were we need to go, a lot of latest JA interviews are pointing to such matters… 🙂

[2015-06-11 09:22:33] <Emmy B> (already)

[2015-06-11 09:24:24] <Emmy B> when Teresa May delivers her speeches about anti-terror laws and legalising surveillance… where is the counter narrative? politicians

[2015-06-11 09:25:36] <Emmy B> don’t even have the vocabulary for the counter narrative. In other professions too. Of course, so much to do already… 🙂

[2015-06-11 09:27:12] <Emmy B> and thanks for doing all you’ve done!

[2015-06-11 09:28:53] <WISE Up Action> Em Remember Stand Up for Truth @jrschlosberg mentioned the lack of counter narrative in MSM. How to break through that?

[2015-06-11 09:44:42] <Emmy B> maybe Non 5 eyes countries have more of a chance to be leaders in developing the counter narrative but of course there is both fear

[2015-06-11 09:46:23] <Emmy B> and complicity. Anglo-Saxon pride and a system of clientelism among 5 eyes makes those counties’ MSM complicity a ticket to establishment

[2015-06-11 09:47:49] <Emmy B> status. Difficult to see dissenting will let alone speak, SNP is a hopeful at this precise point, what MSM do they control?

[2015-06-11 09:47:54] <Emmy B> any?

[2015-06-11 09:48:10] <Emmy B> hmm

[2015-06-11 11:51:54] <WikiLeaks> There was only one paper, a Sunday paper, that supported Scottish independence.

[2015-06-11 11:52:09] <WikiLeaks> – and it was in Scotland.

[2015-06-11 11:52:19] <WikiLeaks> A new pro-independence paper has been founded.

[2015-06-11 11:52:33] <WikiLeaks> The other Scottish papers now have to pretend to support Independence.

[2015-06-11 11:57:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> Hopefully the pressure of the people’s demands via voting will facilitate more supportive press for the SNP and independence.

[2015-06-11 11:59:06] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’m rather enjoying watching Rand Paul try to politically capitalize on the worst anti-liberty behaviors of Obama’s Admin (& Clinton)

[2015-06-11 12:01:31] <LibertarianLibrarian> He’s going after the NDAA and interminable detention w/out due process next. Despite some issues I have with him, he’s still pushing…

[2015-06-11 12:02:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> some important issues into public debate, making it tough on the MSM to ignore them. It’s fun to watch them squirm.

[2015-06-11 12:03:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> It’s nice to see a politician ‘making hay’ out of constitutional violations. 🙂

[2015-06-11 12:13:21] <WikiLeaks> Visa blockaded WL, but soft core child porn is just fine

[2015-06-11 13:34:38] <WikiLeaks> They would have tried to go all the way. Politically impossible to do anything else.

[2015-06-11 13:35:34] <WikiLeaks> A more interesting question is whether England would have permitted it and how it would have turned formal Scottish independence into..

[2015-06-11 13:35:50] <WikiLeaks> ..a shell through the use of bilateral treaties.

[2015-06-11 13:36:45] <WikiLeaks> There is also a real question about the wisdom of sharing an Island with an aggressive nation 10x your size.

[2015-06-11 13:37:40] <Emmy B> From a Greek and Cyprus perspective (and some 50+ years family experience in AngloEgyptian Sudan) Britain nothing but benign 🙁

[2015-06-11 13:42:05] <Emmy B> Even WWII their ‘assistance’ to Greek resistance was always hampered by their Monarchical agenda (support the Greek King at all costs)

[2015-06-11 13:43:07] <Emmy B> In the end came the betrayal in post war Greece and also in Cyprus. It is colonialism of course which was no different to what was meted

[2015-06-11 13:44:51] <Emmy B> to Ireland, Scotland and even Wales (four years in Cardiff which is so Anglicised still you have a strong Welsh identity).

[2015-06-11 13:53:58] <Emmy B> I don’t think one solution fits all ie Nation states are always best, but the English have dominated the other nations and have been brutal

[2015-06-11 13:55:31] <Emmy B> in doing so, let the others be I say, there are no barbarians at the gate other than ourselves. Thank goodness! 🙂

[2015-06-11 14:10:37] <LibertarianLibrarian> Good points, Emmy.

[2015-06-11 14:11:53] <LibertarianLibrarian> There’s so much history b/w Scotland & England, a lot of it quite bitter. I don’t know if full independence is possible today, but some

[2015-06-11 14:12:08] <LibertarianLibrarian> will always want it.

[2015-06-11 14:14:13] <LibertarianLibrarian> I don’t know how the Scotland – UK relation works relative to US federal – state. Here there is always some tension over State rights.

[2015-06-11 14:15:04] <LibertarianLibrarian> After all, we fought a civil war over that, yes, it was about slavery too, but really it was states rights vs federal govt at core.

[2015-06-11 14:16:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> The 10th Amendment and states’ rights may be much quieter now than before but it’s still an issue, i.e. re Marijuana legalization now.

[2015-06-11 14:17:49] <LibertarianLibrarian> I wonder what the SNP would consider feasible now short of full independence; how much separation would satisfy them and their supporters.

[2015-06-11 14:25:26] <Emmy B> I remember our conversations in Earls Court about US Jenny 🙂 learned a lot including not all higher education or healthcare is private.

[2015-06-11 14:26:21] <Emmy B> Are such matter decided at state level or federal level? and who collects the taxes?

[2015-06-11 14:28:31] <Emmy B> Here in UK all direct and indirect taxes go to central gov with the exception of Council tax (police, local road maint rubish collection)

[2015-06-11 14:29:19] <Emmy B> which goes to the local government (borough/municipality level).

[2015-06-11 14:30:40] <Emmy B> Scotland though gets to administer already how to spend central gov money within Scotland via the devolution agreement.

[2015-06-11 14:33:18] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s part of the complicated nature of changing something like healthcare or education policy in the US. Each State can make policy.

[2015-06-11 14:34:27] <Emmy B> I see! very difficult then, the Constitution does not mention anything about education for example?

[2015-06-11 14:34:27] <LibertarianLibrarian> You pay federal taxes and in most states you pay state taxes. Some states don’t have income tax, but collect by sales tax, property tax, etc

[2015-06-11 14:34:53] <Emmy B> Indirect tax

[2015-06-11 14:35:27] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, exactly – it doesn’t, and by the 10th Amendment anything not specifically said to be federal responsibility is actual supposed to be

[2015-06-11 14:35:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> in state hands.

[2015-06-11 14:36:26] <Emmy B> And at state level how is each state governed?

[2015-06-11 14:36:40] <LibertarianLibrarian> Some states have tried their own health insurance programs, with varied success and mostly failure. Tennessee’s state health insurance

[2015-06-11 14:37:28] <LibertarianLibrarian> went belly up more than once. Got sued by Hospitals for millions in nonpayment. Mass is supposed to be a bit better, varies.

[2015-06-11 14:38:09] <LibertarianLibrarian> Different states and even more local areas can try out different education approaches to some degree.

[2015-06-11 14:38:46] <Emmy B> such a big country so many states, surely some ‘got it right’ ?

[2015-06-11 14:38:51] <LibertarianLibrarian> The federal govt uses the funds it gives the states to pressure states to go along with federal mandates.

[2015-06-11 14:39:13] <Emmy B> mandates about what?

[2015-06-11 14:39:51] <LibertarianLibrarian> Not many that I know of, problems include lack of funds to pay for it at state level, lack of enough primary care providers, many things.

[2015-06-11 14:41:08] <LibertarianLibrarian> But, for example, when Obamacare went through, states could choose to expand Medicare/Medicaid or not, some did, some didn’t. Some are

[2015-06-11 14:41:23] <LibertarianLibrarian> even considering banning it.

[2015-06-11 14:42:13] <LibertarianLibrarian> One weird example, Arizona refuses to go on daylight savings time so it’s off from rest of country in time for much of the year.

[2015-06-11 14:42:46] <Emmy B> ::-)

[2015-06-11 14:43:19] <Emmy B> their own ‘timezone’ 😀

[2015-06-11 14:43:35] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, exactly. Seriously.

[2015-06-11 14:45:03] <LibertarianLibrarian> It’s not always easy for the fed govt to overrule states, look at Marijuana legalization now. Feds trying to make it stop but failing.

[2015-06-11 14:46:04] <LibertarianLibrarian> I remember big fights b/w states & fed govt over speed limits. Speed limits on highways vary state to state, but years ago fed govt

[2015-06-11 14:46:44] <LibertarianLibrarian> threatened highway funds to states to get nationwide 55 mph. Didn’t last long.

[2015-06-11 14:47:44] <LibertarianLibrarian> NY still has 55 but FL was 70 mostly.

[2015-06-11 14:48:43] <Emmy B> So this is an example of the mandates you were talking about earlier?

[2015-06-11 14:48:43] <LibertarianLibrarian> Seems like silly issues, but permanent tension. So I look at Scotland situation through US lens, need learn more of their perspective.

[2015-06-11 14:48:59] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes.

[2015-06-11 14:50:17] <Emmy B> But, do you have any ‘national’ or ‘ethnic’ issues among states? I know it is all America but are there ethnic distinctions at all?

[2015-06-11 14:51:23] <WISE Up Wales> I suppose we only have to look to Ireland to see just how low Brits will stoop to hinder independence.

[2015-06-11 14:52:08] <LibertarianLibrarian> It’s not really ethnic differences but cultural differences, except in certain places. Some places like south florida, South Cali, South Tx

[2015-06-11 14:53:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> have strong Mexican, latin/so American influences. And ethnic groups settled in certain places. Like Swedes and Norwegians in Wisconsin

[2015-06-11 14:55:03] <LibertarianLibrarian> Dutch communities in Iowa, parts of NY & PA. English ‘pilgrim’ influences in New England. But more, the states and regions have unique

[2015-06-11 14:56:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> character. The Eastern South is very different from the Western South from New England from the Midwest from the far west, then Cal, OR, WA

[2015-06-11 14:56:30] <LibertarianLibrarian> In Pacific northwest different.

[2015-06-11 14:57:59] <LibertarianLibrarian> Accents, foods, pace of life, primary religions, attitudes, etc change. Remember US is as big as or bigger than Europe.

[2015-06-11 14:59:46] <LibertarianLibrarian> I think we have a problem, due to size, of the lowest common denominator getting nationally elected. Hard to escape huge mass media at that

[2015-06-11 14:59:50] <LibertarianLibrarian> stage.

[2015-06-11 15:00:04] <Emmy B> We keep talking about US this US that, really, we mean the federal gov ie the politicians that govern. Still, the represent the people.

[2015-06-11 15:00:50] <LibertarianLibrarian> Very difficult to mass appeal across so many varied cultures and attitudes and belief systems.

[2015-06-11 15:01:18] <LibertarianLibrarian> So gets watered down to mass stupidity.

[2015-06-11 15:01:53] <LibertarianLibrarian> But that’s why state and local govts have as much power as they do.

[2015-06-11 15:03:04] <LibertarianLibrarian> Even the original 13 were hesitant to give up states’ rights, thus 10th Amendment.

[2015-06-11 15:04:00] <LibertarianLibrarian> Anyway, this was today’s lesson in Americana. For next time… ;D

[2015-06-11 15:05:45] <Emmy B> 🙂 thank you Jenny, we have learned something new today 🙂 x

[2015-06-11 15:07:06] <LibertarianLibrarian> Teach me more about the UK and other countries. I wish I could afford to travel more.

[2015-06-11 15:07:10] <LibertarianLibrarian> 🙂

[2015-06-11 15:08:39] <Emmy B> Well <3 (I am greek – heh) but genny (wales) shared an excellent video back there really worth watching also the Logan symposium video

[2015-06-11 15:09:01] <Emmy B> (dec 2014) remember we had a stall for Chelsea there 🙂

[2015-06-11 15:09:44] <Emmy B> About Northern Ireland

[2015-06-11 15:10:21] <Emmy B> and to tight it all in with Greece (;-p)….

[2015-06-11 15:10:55] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, I’m watching a lot of YouTube vids, I’m also a big fan of British TV drama, mystery and sci-fi. I actually do watch more UK TV than US.

[2015-06-11 15:12:23] <LibertarianLibrarian> Well, I’m off work and can home and get dinner. Have a good night, I may pop back on later when y’all should be sound asleep. 🙂

[2015-06-11 15:13:58] <Emmy B> bye bye Jenny! xxx have a good day at work!!!

[2015-06-11 15:14:18] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-06-11 15:16:10] <Emmy B> Boer war, Russia, Northern Ireland, Greece, and Palestine … British colonial pedigree

[2015-06-11 16:26:27] <noll>–/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/6/11/1434050481208/8e305de7-1b02-4d84-a3ee-bd8a002a76f6-620×423.jpeg

[2015-06-11 16:52:19] <noll> Em, you forget England was a slave state ruled by Norse of Northern France:

[2015-06-11 17:01:34] <noll> – colonialism, but cold war conflict which if lost wld hv spread to Italy & beyond. & as you know, regardless of outside interests, Greek –

[2015-06-11 17:02:22] <noll> polarization goes back to dawn of history.

[2015-06-11 18:16:10] <noll> Wales, as w/ Falklands, Gibraltar it’s a matter of democracy/ self-determination:

[2015-06-11 18:28:22] <noll> re Ireland – race for independence steppingstone was lost & nationalist patience long gone:

[2015-06-11 18:32:58] <noll> Em, simplifications from left or right/ east or western lens are equally wrong. the Boer war started by a lunatic governor. Russia, pure –

[2015-06-11 18:41:29] <noll> imperialism, NI b/c no choice, Greece b/c look at post-war map, Palestine b/c an imperial era is just that, &:

[2015-06-11 18:44:55] <noll> re distorted lens, it’d be interesting to hear what anyone think would have occurred if NATO hadn’t intervened in Libya? one side usually

[2015-06-11 18:52:45] <noll> – has nothing to say after their self-interested bombing panacea failed, the other side just wishes the war away & lies about causalities.

[2015-06-12 06:51:53] <WikiLeaks> Scotland will pal up with US post independence, like Ireland. They need a counter-weight to England.

[2015-06-12 07:08:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> Is there a reasonable counterweight available for Scotland in today’s world? Not sure Russia or China would be even within possibility.

[2015-06-12 07:09:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> The best I see worldwide is the Latin American countries starting to stand together. But is such available to Scotland?

[2015-06-12 07:10:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> Of course, on my end, I’d like to see the US draw way back on its foreign involvement. Not isolationist, but get out of current insanity.

[2015-06-12 09:19:15] <Emmy B> US post war Policy of strengthening the most radical islamists (from Afghanistan to Saudi Arabia) to counteract first USSR then Russia is

[2015-06-12 09:20:41] <Emmy B> so short sighted and so distractive, long term to Western civilisation is at least idiotic. Using Nato in this manner disables its function

[2015-06-12 09:22:03] <Emmy B> as an alliance of even the pretence of a common interest.

[2015-06-12 09:25:24] <Emmy B> What happened in the Ukraine and West’s support to modern day European fascism (our own demon) though is even more dangerous and idiotic.

[2015-06-12 09:27:28] <Emmy B> I am sorry to be so negative but my view is that US policy has been extremely successful in creating chaos they cannot control.

[2015-06-12 09:28:14] <Emmy B> They did not ‘win’ in Afghanistan nor in Iraq, despite the billions spent and the military effort. All they managed to do is destroy destroy

[2015-06-12 09:34:46] <Emmy B> Personally I don’t see Russia as a threat, post USSR they have no ambition or they would not have let first the Balkans, then rest East E.

[2015-06-12 09:36:38] <Emmy B> let go without a fight or even a ‘new negotiated understanding’ a new Yalta so to speak, a tactical withdrawal understanding, something to

[2015-06-12 09:36:44] <Emmy B> fall back to.

[2015-06-12 10:15:50] <LibertarianLibrarian> I agree with you, Emmy. Bush and Obama’s policies in the Middle East & Ukraine (and other places) has been not just foolish but outright

[2015-06-12 10:16:02] <LibertarianLibrarian> dangerous and counterproductive.

[2015-06-12 10:17:47] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’m afraid they’ve created such a large power infrastructure built around these useless, endless wars and warmongering that it’s going to

[2015-06-12 10:18:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> be difficult for the US to get out of it, regardless of who is President.

[2015-06-12 10:19:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> Unless we get someone very unusually courageous and independent. Or some real internal pressure – but, typically, foreign ‘evils’ are

[2015-06-12 10:20:35] <LibertarianLibrarian> used to keep internal controls in place, thus the anti-Muslim terror phobia and the anti-Russia propaganda.

[2015-06-12 10:21:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> UK is doing it too, as are other EU nations.

[2015-06-12 11:00:58] <Emmy B> It is true, very hard to develop an alternative.

[2015-06-12 18:55:24] <noll> Em, it goes unreported but *everyone knows the Ukraine separatists are as equally fascistic as pro-EUs. if you think Putin’s Russia is not –

[2015-06-12 18:58:04] <noll> – imperialistic, then explain North Caucasus campaigns (& a casus belli which earned a death sentence for reporting on) – that’s why it’s –

[2015-06-12 18:59:58] <noll> – missing from Cablegate? we’re not excusing US/ NATO at all. there was no reason to invade Afghanistan, Iraq, & expansion east is insane.

[2015-06-12 19:03:54] <noll> anti-Russian propaganda shows intent, & Russian propaganda illustrates failures. our points concern scientific journalism/ history –

[2015-06-12 19:06:14] <WikiLeaks> Russia has minor imperialistic goals in its near abroad. But it’s economy is considerably smaller than that of Italy…

[2015-06-12 19:06:56] <noll> – invented by Thucydides, w/o which we are lost? it’s important to flag balance, interests of today’s four empires. Wls, we agree, & yet –

[2015-06-12 19:07:18] <WikiLeaks> ..It on the defensive and terrified as the the US produces its next generation weapons and enroaches inexorably.

[2015-06-12 19:08:39] <WikiLeaks> The greatest landmass in the world with an economy the size of italy and borders with a great many states — including a massive China.

[2015-06-12 19:08:55] <noll> – Hitler made just that mistake. Russia is a behemoth, something that US etc seem // what can you say? – historically illiterate of.

[2015-06-12 19:09:09] <WikiLeaks> It runs an independent foreign policy and its arms sales are the only thing that keep a semblance of independence for smaller states.

[2015-06-12 19:09:45] <WikiLeaks> Russia is absolutely terrified.

[2015-06-12 19:12:00] <WikiLeaks> Kalingrad, Crimea, and its only foreign naval base, Syria are all under threat and are not protected by Russia’s strategic depth.

[2015-06-12 19:12:47] <WikiLeaks> Meanwhile the US hacks the hell out of it, and attempts to forment an orange revolution in an explicitly stated policy of regime change.

[2015-06-12 19:14:19] <WikiLeaks> Consequently the Kremlin is deeply paranoid of everyone, including foreign funded NGO’s and invading “western” cultural practices, like gays

[2015-06-12 19:15:20] <WikiLeaks> and the internet. That pushes it to become authoritarian, because it thinks it may be overthrown by US subversion, meanwhile opportunists..

[2015-06-12 19:15:51] <WikiLeaks> …within Russia play on Kremlin fears for their own advancement and power consolidation.

[2015-06-12 19:18:50] <noll> we agree, w/ all of that, Victoria Nuland intercepts show the depth of US meddling. & yet greatest danger to Kremlin & its satellites is –

[2015-06-12 19:18:59] <WikiLeaks> US next generation weapons are serious advancements. It’s play in Ukraine was in Russia’s sister country, and so the Russian ruling class…

[2015-06-12 19:19:14] <WikiLeaks> are terrified the same thing could happen to them.

[2015-06-12 19:20:49] <noll> – as always velvet revolutions, b/c who would want to remain w/i that sphere, it’s a goldmine that will slowly erode they’re influence –

[2015-06-12 19:22:39] <noll> & power. w/o huge reform, closing that door, they should be concerned. but, as you say, they’re trapped? western ‘reforms’ = weakness,

[2015-06-12 19:24:54] <noll> – a white flag, intolerable to reactionaries. if west pushes at the weakness – and they push back, as they both are – there lies the danger.

[2015-06-12 19:30:10] <noll> antidote is another round of glasnost/ perestroika, but it’s politically inconceivable, mostly thanks to US pressure providing an exit.

[2015-06-12 19:32:50] <WikiLeaks> Exactly.

[2015-06-12 19:33:21] <WikiLeaks> And unity with China is very dangerous, also.

[2015-06-12 19:34:58] <WikiLeaks> 10x the population, 7x the GDP, right up against its exposed south eastern flank.

[2015-06-12 19:37:22] <noll> pact b/w Russia/ China? they both share achilles heel. w/ China, it’s a nightmare in waiting. US should be extraordinarily careful.. but.

[2015-06-12 19:39:34] <noll> that’s not likely:

[2015-06-12 19:44:03] <noll> interesting that china has pre-emptively constructed ready made flash point w/ south seas islands, will US/ regional allies take hint? no.

[2015-06-12 19:45:36] <noll> & just imagine another GW Bush pondering any of this.

[2015-06-12 19:54:09] <noll> re costs, we’ve just seen ‘Kajaki’

[2015-06-12 19:56:03] <noll> – & could be set anywhere, involving anyone.

[2015-06-13 04:22:33] <Emmy B> “But it’s economy is considerably smaller than that of Italy…” Didn’t know that, what an eye opener.

[2015-06-13 04:28:00] <Emmy B> In ’95, not long after Glastnost, Perestroika I was working for an AngloRussian shipping company, bringing containerised traffic (consumer

[2015-06-13 04:29:41] <Emmy B> goods) Froem Western Europe to St Petersburg and bringing back metals for (mainly) Steinweg in Rotterdam. This was a reflection of Russian

[2015-06-13 04:30:30] <Emmy B> economy, based on trading commodities ie not sophisticated.

[2015-06-13 04:31:43] <Emmy B> The firm also shipped ‘project cargo’ into Russia, mainly Western manufactured equipment for the gas extraction Russian industries as far

[2015-06-13 04:32:48] <Emmy B> as Siberia and Novosibirsk, generally the energy sector. It was all foreign firms shipping the goods into Russia. I saw then as I see now

[2015-06-13 04:33:50] <Emmy B> the West going after the Russian resources. So now all this US bla bla ‘Europe must be independent of Russia from its energy needs’ it is a

[2015-06-13 04:34:40] <Emmy B> big lie in a way because it was the West that immediately went in to develop this sector. Sadly, I think this anti-Russian rhetoric is not

[2015-06-13 04:37:14] <Emmy B> different than building up a case for the eventual control of Russian resources. German Banks were from the start investing heavily &

[2015-06-13 04:38:32] <Emmy B> building transport infrastructure ie Berlin- Moscow direct rail link etc. So it has been a steady Western reach out to get to Russia market

[2015-06-13 04:39:07] <Emmy B> and resources from West’s financial centres.

[2015-06-13 10:25:22] <Emmy B> @ WL <3 You did it again ! 🙂

[2015-06-13 10:29:49] <LibertarianLibrarian> That fear from Russia has been around for awhile. My sister was there in the Peace Corps when the Russians threw out the Peace Corps,

[2015-06-13 10:29:58] <LibertarianLibrarian> She had to come home early.

[2015-06-13 10:31:19] <LibertarianLibrarian> My personal fears are supporting the rise of fascism in Ukraine and similar places in a foolish use of Russia as an enemy to stir fear in US

[2015-06-13 10:31:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> citizens to keep them from rising up against problems at home.

[2015-06-13 10:32:17] <WikiLeaks> Peace Corps is perfectly nasty at its core. It has its own cable system, complete with classifications and uses the same layout as State.

[2015-06-13 10:32:32] <LibertarianLibrarian> And the use of China as another boogeyman to get us into yet another war or cold war. That would be the worst thing .

[2015-06-13 10:32:57] <Emmy B> I have no idea what peace corps is, looking up now…

[2015-06-13 10:33:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> My parents were both peace corps volunteers and they took their work in Africa in the 60s seriously – my Mom was a nurse. They tried to do

[2015-06-13 10:33:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> good things.

[2015-06-13 10:34:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> A lot of the volunteers really want to help. But I can believe high levels are corruptible.

[2015-06-13 10:35:16] <WikiLeaks>

[2015-06-13 10:35:35] <WikiLeaks> It’s used as cover for CIA etc also.

[2015-06-13 10:36:20] <LibertarianLibrarian> Emmy – peace corps send volunteers around the world to provide help, training, education, medical care. Most volunteers really want to help.

[2015-06-13 10:37:11] <Emmy B> Thank you all, reading now…

[2015-06-13 10:38:14] <LibertarianLibrarian> I grew up on my parents’ stories of West Africa and the amazing people they met there.

[2015-06-13 10:39:12] <LibertarianLibrarian> The same true of my parents’ peace corps friends. It’s very disheartening to hear it’s been misused by the USG.

[2015-06-13 10:40:12] <Emmy B> Very interesting…

[2015-06-13 10:41:18] <LibertarianLibrarian> I nearly volunteered myself coming out of college but wanted to get my PhD, which I never quite finished in the end.

[2015-06-13 10:41:49] <Emmy B> From a time perspective, Before Peace Corps type org, it was churches who played such role in spreading culture/religion influence in Africa

[2015-06-13 10:43:18] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, and churches still do a lot of that.

[2015-06-13 10:43:27] <Emmy B> My great grandad as building contractor built UK gov offices in Chartum (Sudan) & US Christian missions in South Sudan in 30’s 40’s.

[2015-06-13 10:43:40] <WikiLeaks> Yes. Peace Corps was a brilliant, if evil idea.

[2015-06-13 10:44:53] <Emmy B> I guess it can sit above religious obstacles ie penetrate islamic African countries where a Christina mission would not have much chance…

[2015-06-13 10:44:54] <LibertarianLibrarian> Damn, it makes me angry that they misappropriated the good work and true caring of people like my parents and so many of the volunteers.

[2015-06-13 10:46:51] <WikiLeaks> It’s not like some of the work wasn’t useful, but yes, State uses Peace Corps as a means of public diplomacy to calm irate populations.

[2015-06-13 10:47:00] <LibertarianLibrarian> It’s a weird sort of balance, do you take good work that comes with religious evangelism or risk infiltration of secular volunteers w/ govt.

[2015-06-13 10:47:36] <WikiLeaks> Much the same thing.

[2015-06-13 10:48:49] <Emmy B> The missions did good work offering education and health care but also created cultural alienation & dependence of locals from the europeans

[2015-06-13 10:49:11] <WikiLeaks> Duel agenda in both cases. “Do gooding” opens the door, but coversion is the main game.

[2015-06-13 10:49:11] <Emmy B> for work as well as ‘society’.

[2015-06-13 10:51:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> For most volunteers it was purely about the doing good. It was for my parents and their friends. My Mom was a nurse, provided health care

[2015-06-13 10:52:59] <LibertarianLibrarian> She took a lot back with her, used to carry me like the African women did their babies. Taught us Swahili. Made sure we understood

[2015-06-13 10:53:28] <LibertarianLibrarian> people everywhere had value.

[2015-06-13 10:53:52] <Emmy B> “like the African women did their babies.” how sweet 🙂

[2015-06-13 10:54:07] <LibertarianLibrarian> But my parents were 60s hippy types.

[2015-06-13 10:55:53] <LibertarianLibrarian> She wrapped me up on her back with African robes, supposed to make baby feel safe and feel mother’s heart beat.

[2015-06-13 10:57:09] <Emmy B> They would have loved their experience then and took a lot out if it. What a difference a few decades make. My family settled in Africa in

[2015-06-13 10:58:28] <Emmy B> 1913 and left in late 50’s early 60’s I think, very very different attitudes but my mum describes herself as a white African so…

[2015-06-13 10:58:40] <Emmy B> aww!

[2015-06-13 10:59:07] <Emmy B> Jenny, did your parents make local friends?

[2015-06-13 10:59:24] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s interesting, but yes, generations differ a lot.

[2015-06-13 11:00:28] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, my Mom used to talk about the girl next door, young preteen who spoke 7 languages fluently. And about the Masai people & how dignified

[2015-06-13 11:00:36] <LibertarianLibrarian> they were.

[2015-06-13 11:02:13] <LibertarianLibrarian> I was more a child of the 80s and rebelled against what I thought was my parents’ sappy liberalism. They meant well but I thought they were

[2015-06-13 11:03:50] <LibertarianLibrarian> Full of it. LOL. Typical enough. 😀

[2015-06-13 11:04:37] <LibertarianLibrarian> Anyway, sad to hear Peace Corps misused. It meant a lot to my family.

[2015-06-13 11:06:02] <Emmy B> 😀 I think we owe a lot to that generation Jenny as far as HR and civil liberties are concerned. Whether they lived up to their own

[2015-06-13 11:06:56] <Emmy B> standards is another matter if I am permitted to say so, but created a horizon for us, that still today (drowning in consumerism) provides

[2015-06-13 11:07:04] <Emmy B> a focus, a direction.

[2015-06-13 11:08:14] <Emmy B> But going back to Peace Corps, I think it is fair to say, once an institution is established with state backing and resources it is very

[2015-06-13 11:08:47] <Emmy B> easy to divert its primary function away from its apparent objective.

[2015-06-13 11:10:01] <Emmy B> I will read a bit more about Peace Corps, thanks for bringing it up 🙂

[2015-06-13 11:10:03] <LibertarianLibrarian> Oh yes, they did do a lot of good. I got frustrated with parts of it that were illogical or overdone, like feminism that turns into hatred

[2015-06-13 11:10:26] <LibertarianLibrarian> Or constant whining excuse for failure.

[2015-06-13 11:11:27] <LibertarianLibrarian> Or in my case, constant pressure to succeed professionally. Parents tend to try to make up what they felt they didn’t have thru their kids.

[2015-06-13 11:11:43] <LibertarianLibrarian> Made me hate feminism.

[2015-06-13 11:12:07] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, the peace corps is an interesting topic.

[2015-06-13 11:12:57] <LibertarianLibrarian> And anyway, world’s always moving on and growing up reminds you of what your parents did right as well as wrong.

[2015-06-13 11:13:01] <LibertarianLibrarian> 🙂

[2015-06-13 11:13:11] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-06-13 11:13:22] <Emmy B> yes

[2015-06-13 11:15:09] <LibertarianLibrarian> You are right about organizations like the Peace Corps. Sadly ripe for misuse and diversion. That’s why I’m very cautious of charities.

[2015-06-13 11:16:45] <Emmy B> oh

[2015-06-13 11:24:26] <Emmy B> YMCA seems more benign

[2015-06-13 11:25:22] <Emmy B> I did not realise Voluntary Service Overseas (VSO) was a UK government project either

[2015-06-13 16:53:24] <noll>

[2015-06-13 16:53:46] <noll> [Tweet] somewhere in-between?

[2015-06-13 16:56:43] <WikiLeaks> Do you have the full text to that ST article?

[2015-06-13 16:59:13] <noll> not yet, trying to find a repost, damned if giving STimes bank details, esp. for this crap. will tweet it asa turns up.

[2015-06-13 17:05:11] <noll> a few further details here:

[2015-06-13 17:10:10] <noll> looks like 4 paragraphs & the rest is just padding.

[2015-06-13 17:30:22] <M> Here’s the full ST article:

[2015-06-13 17:37:28] <noll> thanks.

[2015-06-13 17:43:05] <noll> “which contain details of secret intelligence techniques/ info that could allow UK & US spies to be identified”

[2015-06-13 17:44:01] <noll> if there’s any truth in story, above seems more than likely.

[2015-06-13 18:25:41] <noll>

[2015-06-13 19:18:33] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-13 19:21:31] <noll> hilarious:

[2015-06-13 19:27:25] <WikiLeaks> Great find.

[2015-06-13 19:28:19] <noll> as always – couldn’t make it up.

[2015-06-13 19:28:44] <WikiLeaks> “The CIA employee will inform you if and when you have been cleared by the Peace Corps to apply for employment with the Peace Corps.”

[2015-06-13 19:32:12] <WikiLeaks> It’s in knots trying to resolve its own contridictions: to avoid scandals re: CIA infiltration but at the same time, to enable it.

[2015-06-13 19:33:26] <noll>

[2015-06-13 19:37:33] <noll> also acts as official CIA ‘work experience’:

[2015-06-13 19:40:46] <WikiLeaks> Another way to read this is that PC is trying to protect CIA agents from foreign infiltration.

[2015-06-13 19:45:55] <noll> & CIA from foreign infiltration, monitoring/ surveillance of PC recruits likely v. intense, to say least.

[2015-06-13 19:48:13] <noll> sounds like a fun way to travel to “139 countries served since 1961”:

[2015-06-13 20:06:13] <WikiLeaks> “beware the three C’s — Communism, Cuties, and the CIA.”

[2015-06-13 20:40:44] <noll> great article, when it comes to cult-like institutions, agencies, elitist sectors & brotherhood associations could use several alphabets.

[2015-06-13 20:42:35] <noll> guardian posts w/o comment:

[2015-06-14 01:06:54] <Emmy B> interesting they do not challenge a single sentence they report from the times article

[2015-06-14 01:42:20] <M> Ryan Gallagher did a breakdown of problems with the ST Snowden story:

[2015-06-14 03:02:22] <WISE Up Wales> This from Craig Murray on the ST Snowden story:

[2015-06-14 05:00:54] <Emmy B>

[2015-06-14 06:25:18] <noll>

[2015-06-14 06:33:50] <noll> the onion should do a take down of ‘journalism’ & .govt anonymous sources.

[2015-06-14 06:51:21] <noll>

[2015-06-14 06:58:53] <noll>

[2015-06-14 08:26:13] <WISE Up Action> My goodness

[2015-06-14 08:29:46] <noll> “a *Shill*man Journalism Fellow at the ‘Freedom Center'” – don’t hold back!

[2015-06-14 08:31:22] <Emmy B> I mean the timing is perfect, maybe Brigade 77’s first assignment, tie Snowden to Russia so budget allocated, box ticked (:-D) then throw

[2015-06-14 08:31:40] <Emmy B> the dog a bone, let’s see how it does….

[2015-06-14 08:32:11] <Emmy B> We should keep notes LOL

[2015-06-14 09:10:15] <Emmy B> Ewen McAskill

[2015-06-14 09:12:51] <noll>

[2015-06-14 09:17:23] <Emmy B> McAskill’s article is good, no comments are open

[2015-06-14 09:17:54] <Emmy B> I think I will go buy the printed version see what they have actually printed vs their online content.

[2015-06-14 09:21:23] <noll> could you put some large scans online? – they are different:

[2015-06-14 09:36:15] <Emmy B> Sorry, @ Hazel, what do you mean (I just came back form the shop with the paper version)

[2015-06-14 10:21:13] <noll> can you make a scan of the article w/ scan resolution set high, & post a temp page on your blog w/ the images so that others can save them?

[2015-06-14 10:25:40] <noll> Em, does page 2 of article contain Miranda lie?

[2015-06-14 10:36:50] <noll> a UK ‘journalist’ holding power (seen here in the guise of a mass murding idiot) to account:

[2015-06-14 10:38:43] <Emmy B> yes it does

[2015-06-14 11:08:12] <Emmy B>

[2015-06-14 11:53:07] <Cabledrum> WL: There’s a problem with the domain registrar of

[2015-06-14 11:53:27] <Cabledrum> The registry for the TLD .org (afilias-nst) does not deliver an authoritative DNS for

[2015-06-14 13:03:06] <Emmy B> Thanks for checking! I won’t include the domain name just now in a new flyer we are putting together.

[2015-06-14 13:42:43] <noll> [Tweet] Em, is this it?

[2015-06-14 14:05:00] <Emmy B> Will give the topic a miss and stick with WL news 🙂 x

[2015-06-14 14:05:10] <Emmy B> But on a good note

[2015-06-14 14:06:21] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-06-14 14:06:52] <Emmy B> Great strides forward in HR in Greece the last few months 🙂

[2015-06-14 14:15:29] <noll> still 16th etc. here’s the FT piece:

[2015-06-14 17:08:29] <noll> two amusing propaganda pieces on NK, complete w/ “a source said”:

[2015-06-14 17:16:12] <noll> point we were making re journalism etc yesterday transferred to STimes article:

[2015-06-14 17:24:05] <noll> – of attacks on Wls/ Cablegate incl the significant Shamir case, which had 2 parts. ie. next: a patent nonproof presented/ adopted as proof.

[2015-06-15 07:44:28] <noll>

[2015-06-15 07:49:21] <noll> perhaps this has gone so sideways they’re will be no follow-up (which could also involve attacking SH/ Wls).

[2015-06-15 09:32:47] <M> Dagens Juridik criticizes secrecy re prosecution plans to question JA

[2015-06-15 11:01:38] <noll> latest FOI – surveillance FOIs are designed to be appealed & then taken to UK info commissioner.

[2015-06-15 11:03:47] <noll> appeal for 33368 question is already in – it failed to address any of the points we raised, just repeated initial justification.

[2015-06-15 11:05:55] <Emmy B> Excellent work H <3

[2015-06-15 11:06:16] <Emmy B> and many thanks to everyone for sharing all the info links 🙂

[2015-06-15 11:07:26] <noll> thanks Em, we’re preparing another batch of FOIs, will let everyone know contents when sent.

[2015-06-15 11:26:59] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s great, HP!

[2015-06-15 12:54:34] <noll> [Tweet] UK press outdoing themselves these days..

[2015-06-15 13:03:41] <noll> Bloomberg article w/ “comment from @foreignoffice, but FO

has nothing to do with arranging #Assange MLA”:

[2015-06-15 13:05:57] <Emmy B> Are they going to procrastinate on technicalities?

[2015-06-15 13:13:43] <noll> MLA sent 1 June, things shouldn’t complex – but if Ny waits till near her 31 July deadline, will have a 13 day failure excuse – & blame JA.

[2015-06-15 13:16:34] <Emmy B> Honest to god one day we must know what has happened with this case, the politics, the interference.

[2015-06-15 13:16:44] <Emmy B> so unfair

[2015-06-15 15:44:45] <LibertarianLibrarian> It’s pure insanity. I’m suspicious Ny wants to let it die on statute of limitations so she doesn’t have to produce exculpatory evidence

[2015-06-15 15:45:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> or get embarrassed by being either unable to make charges or getting taken to pieces in court.

[2015-06-15 15:47:11] <LibertarianLibrarian> Leaves JA without chance to see and release exculpatory evidence or to prove his innocence, so he’s left without way to clear his name fully

[2015-06-15 15:48:13] <LibertarianLibrarian> And he’s still stuck b/c of US hidden indictment and UK threat to arrest regardless.

[2015-06-15 15:48:52] <LibertarianLibrarian> Infuriating! Wishing for a way to sneak him out to Ecuador.

[2015-06-15 15:49:23] <LibertarianLibrarian> Too bad he doesn’t fit in a diplomatic bag. 😛

[2015-06-15 16:49:44] <noll>

[2015-06-15 17:59:31] <noll> [Tweet] Hector X. Monsegur @hxmonsegur 1h

Looks like I’ll be heading to Berlin this year. Nice!

[2015-06-15 20:46:37] <M> Quotes from Keith Lowry – who investigated Manning and Snowden – are beyond ridiculous.

[2015-06-15 20:55:02] <Emmy B> Yes, but such views about whistleblowers and Manning in particular were expressed at the time even by the Guardian remember?

[2015-06-16 05:34:37] <noll> oppositism – isn’t the ‘problem’ the odd person in mass-crimes office who isn’t “malicious in nature”?

[2015-06-16 06:22:28] <noll> #wanted2015 – #ForcedDisappearance files

[2015-06-16 06:41:38] <noll> Henry Jackson Society began Snowden attack:

[2015-06-16 06:42:08] <noll> More:

[2015-06-16 06:51:43] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet] Re HJS

[2015-06-16 06:55:48] <noll>

[2015-06-16 06:58:27] <noll> HJS has made similar attacks against Wls:

[2015-06-16 06:59:38] <noll> HJS website is *not secure – would avoid viewing directly.

[2015-06-16 10:22:37] <Cabledrum> Wikileaks:

[2015-06-16 10:22:49] <Cabledrum> Standard DNS lookup terminates with “Domain does not exist”

[2015-06-16 10:22:57] <Cabledrum> Whois looks ok, name server points to ns*

[2015-06-16 10:23:03] <Cabledrum> Direct DNS lookup at ns* works out

[2015-06-16 10:35:55] <Emmy B> Maybe they’ve taken it down CD

[2015-06-16 10:48:54] <Cabledrum> No, it looks like a technical problem of their domain registrar

[2015-06-16 10:51:00] <Emmy B> thank you!

[2015-06-16 19:10:30] <noll>

[2015-06-17 06:09:41] <Cabledrum> @smsteinitz is back on Twitter

[2015-06-17 06:12:21] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-17 06:16:02] <noll> [Tweet] re scepticism of what SNP says now & will do.

[2015-06-17 06:40:43] <noll> following arrest UK can legally hold someone w/o charge for 96 hours – by 19th JA will have been held for 39,744 hours.

[2015-06-17 07:55:47] <Emmy B> The hypocrisy….

[2015-06-17 08:01:22] <Emmy B> Re Russian sanctions, Syriza intervention avoided expansion of sanctions further back in Feb. They do not have to power to cancel existing

[2015-06-17 08:02:24] <Emmy B> sanctions which will be prolonged as long as the powers to be wish. Gr/Syriza-Anel position is against sanctions in general as non effective

[2015-06-17 08:02:32] <Emmy B> counterproductive.

[2015-06-17 08:03:35] <Emmy B> The other two elements of foreign policy re issue is: 1. 100,000 Greek origin ppl in Mariupoli and their safety, 2. the counter sanctions by

[2015-06-17 08:04:46] <Emmy B> Russia to EU cost Gr agriculture Russian market (pre-sanctions 70% of Gr agricultural exports went to Russia). Under current financial situ

[2015-06-17 08:05:23] <Emmy B> you can imagine the impossible diplomatic situation for GR

[2015-06-17 08:21:08] <noll> important update:

[2015-06-17 08:29:17] <Emmy B> thanks for sharing!

[2015-06-17 08:34:03] <noll> Em, agree, GR is canary for so much atm. it’s *own export/ people’s interests vs Troika/ US interests – ‘do as we say or else’. it’s awful.

[2015-06-17 08:35:35] <noll> interesting article posted by appelbaum:

[2015-06-17 09:21:06] <LibertarianLibrarian> That is interesting. That’s a common problem, reducing high complexity to simplistic examples, esp biased ones. Not that reducing complexity

[2015-06-17 09:22:20] <LibertarianLibrarian> is always bad, but large nations are always a huge mixture of people, cultures, policies… often one part of the govt doesn’t know another

[2015-06-17 09:22:27] <LibertarianLibrarian> is doing.

[2015-06-17 10:14:10] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet]

[2015-06-17 10:20:40] <Emmy B> Disgraceful behaviour as usual!

[2015-06-17 10:55:02] <WikiLeaks> This is our backgrounder for the 3 years. Please try to stick roughly to its framing

[2015-06-17 10:55:14] <WikiLeaks> (i.e angle, chronology)

[2015-06-17 10:56:17] <WikiLeaks> There will likely by a counter-attack by the Sweden tomorrow so it is important to establish the true narrative now.

[2015-06-17 11:00:05] <noll> this is a good stat for countering, hasn’t been used before.

[2015-06-17 11:05:12] <WikiLeaks> no page?

[2015-06-17 11:05:23] <WikiLeaks> Is that your 96 hours stat?

[2015-06-17 11:05:30] <WikiLeaks> If so, yes, that’s very good.

[2015-06-17 11:05:53] <noll> sorry reworded Tweet.

[2015-06-17 11:07:36] <noll> both came for researching new FOI, will put link to new ones here this evening.

[2015-06-17 11:18:54] <noll> are we reading that right (it’s incredibly muddled) – that in effect there is a 90 day time limit on executing the warrant?

[2015-06-17 11:27:39] <WikiLeaks> It’s muddled, but one should look at the enabling legislation in the UK. The Framework text can only be used to resolve ambiguities.

[2015-06-17 11:49:58] <Emmy B> If it was all supposed a secret about prosecutor coming to question JA at embassy how is it Expressen journo Chris was outside the embassy

[2015-06-17 11:50:27] <Emmy B> asking questions from the vigil ppl? how did he know to come?

[2015-06-17 11:51:25] <Emmy B> it seems someone from the prosecutors office is leaking info selectively to Expressen

[2015-06-17 12:04:40] <noll> looks like 90 time limit is completely ignored by Extradition Act:

[2015-06-17 12:26:01] <noll> & there’s nothing in Crime/ Policing Act amendments. & yet, “Framework Decisions are binding upon Member States”:

[2015-06-17 12:36:11] <Emmy B> It is blamed on Ecuador in Swedish press

[2015-06-17 12:51:01] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-17 12:51:06] <WikiLeaks> Eckersley’s Assange contract looks like it has ran out.

[2015-06-17 12:57:40] <noll>

[2015-06-17 13:00:11] <noll> – although she’s still got Fwlf to endlessly argue w/.

[2015-06-17 14:18:38] <M> [Tweet] Does Levine not realize this is fake?

[2015-06-17 14:23:47] <Emmy B> Well the ‘tor is US navy funded thus unsafe’ perspective has been popular among a certain circle including him.

[2015-06-17 14:23:56] <Emmy B> He is just adding to the mythology?

[2015-06-17 14:24:08] <Emmy B> He wants a dig

[2015-06-17 14:26:15] <M> It’s unfortunate that an otherwise bright individual can become involved in such a petty feud.

[2015-06-17 14:31:56] <Emmy B> shh *I don’t like him* shh intellectual arrogance climbs its podium poking at a very popular person who also has dimples? (try…envy?)

[2015-06-17 14:32:11] <Emmy B> hahaha

[2015-06-17 14:38:28] <Emmy B> [Tweet] I live to regret it but:

[2015-06-17 14:58:28] <noll> new FOIs:

[2015-06-17 15:14:26] <noll> question three had just been updated. very hard to know how to word these things.

[2015-06-17 15:16:29] <noll> *has

[2015-06-17 15:20:41] <noll> could use a Jason Leopold tutorial..

[2015-06-17 16:25:46] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’m utterly disgusted at Ny. Unbelievable behavior.

[2015-06-17 16:26:17] <LibertarianLibrarian> How can anyone believe her or justify her?

[2015-06-17 16:27:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> Wish I could be more proactive helping right now, but I’ll be in hospital next Tues – Thurs having my cardiac surgery. Trying to get work

[2015-06-17 16:28:03] <LibertarianLibrarian> and etc. in order by then.

[2015-06-17 16:28:49] <noll> does anyone know where Ny’s denial of sending a cancellation email is posted?

[2015-06-17 16:29:03] <LibertarianLibrarian> End of next week, I’ll probably be online a lot and bored in recovery, so I can do stuff then if needed

[2015-06-17 16:29:25] <LibertarianLibrarian> She’s denied it?

[2015-06-17 16:31:19] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-17 16:32:17] <LibertarianLibrarian> Wow, bad if she got caught by the Guardian. How stupid!

[2015-06-17 16:35:10] <WISE Up Action> It’s just this that’s being referred to, I think: para 4 ‘in email correspondence seen by the Guardian’

[2015-06-17 16:35:35] <noll> ah, we see, it’s all within the same article, here:

[2015-06-17 16:36:42] <noll> Action, Jen, that’s astonishing – they’re literally compulsive liars.

[2015-06-17 16:52:59] <noll> & why lie about that? it’s completely pointless. as though lying has become a pathological compulsion. must be a fun office.

[2015-06-17 17:08:22] <WISE Up Action> It’s the wind up. The ‘can’t confirm or deny’ of the security services. Plus it was technically still a ‘prospective appointment’

[2015-06-17 17:08:39] <WISE Up Action> tho obv arranged in all but name.

[2015-06-17 17:10:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> You’re right, the Guardian has become astonishingly corrupt. I’ve seen places like that, usually it’s terrible leadership, top down paranoia

[2015-06-17 17:11:12] <LibertarianLibrarian> People compete for favor & lie, whisper, gossip, and backstab.

[2015-06-17 17:13:09] <LibertarianLibrarian> I also can’t imagine what Ny’s office is like. How many excuses? How embarrassing.

[2015-06-17 18:27:39] <Cabledrum>

[2015-06-17 18:29:54] <Emmy B> I am including site in only one of the two flyers we are printing for distribution outside the embassy.

[2015-06-17 18:56:49] <noll> Cables, v. expired, we see host of ‘do not enter’ privacy error warnings.

[2015-06-17 19:13:34] <noll> day 1,654

[2015-06-18 06:08:17] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-18 06:33:42] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-18 07:05:30] <noll>

[2015-06-18 09:25:38] <noll>

[2015-06-18 09:45:30] <WikiLeaks> What’s that cspan reference?

[2015-06-18 09:46:54] <noll>

[2015-06-18 09:47:27] <noll> #FastTrack passes 218-208

[2015-06-18 09:51:16] <WISE Up Action> Oh shit.

[2015-06-18 10:09:23] <noll> yep, & can’t imagine Senate voting against.

[2015-06-18 10:54:14] <LibertarianLibrarian> Oh shit sums it up perfectly. Wonder how much money went into paying off those reps.

[2015-06-18 10:56:17] <Emmy B> A close call

[2015-06-18 10:58:47] <WikiLeaks> Senate will not vote against.

[2015-06-18 10:59:00] <WikiLeaks> Not unless we publish the remaining chapters before it votes.

[2015-06-18 11:03:00] <LibertarianLibrarian> Or one of the Sens running for President decides to make trouble. Wonder if Rand Paul would make a stink – he seems to be against it.

[2015-06-18 11:03:47] <LibertarianLibrarian> But yes, hopefully the increasing fund pledge for the TPP will get it leaked to WL.

[2015-06-18 11:07:02] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-18 13:43:14] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-06-18 13:45:10] <Emmy B> FWLF continues to spam my threads, here in a parallel thread with gerge42 mgt gets the MP to laugh and share in the joke. What does one do?

[2015-06-18 13:45:58] <WikiLeaks> The MP is a tory twat.

[2015-06-18 13:47:02] <WISE Up Action> Quite.

[2015-06-18 13:49:22] <Emmy B> 🙂 of course, but still, every one of my serious efforts to push the message across is spammed by mgt. Do I go back explaining who fwlf is

[2015-06-18 13:49:38] <Emmy B> or drop the whole thing?

[2015-06-18 13:51:13] <WikiLeaks> Have you banned him and his proxies?

[2015-06-18 13:52:04] <Emmy B> yes

[2015-06-18 13:52:36] <noll> why push anything at a gutter, unless you want to troll it, don’t bother?

[2015-06-18 13:53:19] <WikiLeaks> The issue is, he is trolling people she talks to, e.g like the tory MP, because she talks to them.

[2015-06-18 13:53:30] <Emmy B> but he sees all my tweets anyway I don’t know how and within minutes he is on my threads

[2015-06-18 13:54:09] <WikiLeaks> You could just change the name of your account and the icon to a pretty blonde.

[2015-06-18 13:54:55] <Emmy B> why?

[2015-06-18 13:55:44] <WikiLeaks> He won’t know the new name. And the blonde–studies show attractive women as icons open up resistant social groups of men, such as MPs.

[2015-06-18 13:56:28] <WikiLeaks> Or just create a new account to do this.

[2015-06-18 13:58:02] <Emmy B> hahahaha

[2015-06-18 13:59:25] <Emmy B> my problem…I don’t want to pretend to be other than I am…very limiting I know

[2015-06-18 14:00:36] <Emmy B> but anyway a good idea for future campaigns.

[2015-06-18 14:01:05] <WikiLeaks> Pick a dead actress if you want plausible deniability, where the image represents a statement, rather than a person.

[2015-06-18 14:01:30] <WISE Up Action> well I guess you may have to have patience, Em – he does totally shoot himself in the foot – MG I mean

[2015-06-18 14:02:56] <Emmy B> thank you all, great support <3 I return to the battlefield 🙂

[2015-06-18 14:03:13] <Emmy B> hahaha x

[2015-06-18 14:14:04] <noll> we might put one together, HP is v. constrained.

[2015-06-18 14:33:17] <noll>

[2015-06-18 15:51:56] <noll> is this true? if not, does anyone know who @ZULU4O1 is? – all they do is feed Fwlf.

[2015-06-18 15:59:34] <Emmy B> sweetie, no thank you, but really appreciate this 🙂 I will just persevere and eventually prevail.

[2015-06-18 16:00:59] <Emmy B> who is this Tom Coburg who keeps tweeting at me about Greece, anyone?

[2015-06-18 16:12:38] <noll> well, it’s there if needed, we might well use now & again. no idea who Tom Coburg is, but recognise the account.

[2015-06-18 22:23:13] <M> [Tweet] Parody account getting some traction.

[2015-06-18 23:40:24] <Matt Watt> I have seen my name mentioned several times regarding that Zulu account, not me running it, also not sure who is.

[2015-06-18 23:43:45] <Matt Watt> Heading to #3years2long protest in Sydney at UK consulate. Is a time set on todays MidEast release, might be able to link for Aus media pub

[2015-06-18 23:54:37] <WikiLeaks> Matt, Google removed your video:

[2015-06-19 00:01:36] <Matt Watt> Which video was it? Link doesnt give me a title. They have taken down several over years, once because a radio in background playing music!

[2015-06-19 00:04:08] <Matt Watt> Worked out it was the racist on the train. Was taken down for privacy breach, she was staying stop recording in the video.

[2015-06-19 00:05:06] <Matt Watt> *saying

[2015-06-19 00:17:37] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-06-19 05:33:23] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-19 05:40:01] <WikiLeaks> Action stations soon.

[2015-06-19 06:01:55] <WISE Up Wales> Emmy – re Tom Coburg, he’s just a guy with a blog afaics. He did flaky post abt McNeilly info a while back, I commented & he removed it.

[2015-06-19 06:03:00] <WISE Up Wales> Communicated with me about it – no issues – thanked me for alerting him.

[2015-06-19 06:06:50] <Emmy B> Thank you genny!

[2015-06-19 06:06:57] <Emmy B> <3

[2015-06-19 06:11:36] <noll> Matt, thanks for info’, will send Zulu a DM re Fwlf. also, re video this may help:

[2015-06-19 06:25:30] <noll>

[2015-06-19 06:33:52] <Emmy B>

[2015-06-19 06:34:48] <Emmy B> Congratulations on new release, hope translations into English will one day be possible.

[2015-06-19 06:45:18] <noll> can wait for the full 500,000 –

[2015-06-19 06:47:25] <noll> *can’t

[2015-06-19 06:49:17] <WISE Up Action> Excellent.TY xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[2015-06-19 07:48:30] <noll> the rest of this could prove v. interesting:

[2015-06-19 11:42:41] <M> The MGT/Steinitz/Stern saga continues:–wikileaks-fans-und-ihr-teures-hobby–mobbing-6309362.html

[2015-06-19 12:07:02] <noll> Cables, when you have a moment can you post a translation of final sentence? v. hard to make out clear meaning from online translations.

[2015-06-19 12:41:11] <M> Write-up on Google/Appelbaum disclosure:

[2015-06-19 13:07:21] <noll> Steinitz has even blocked our backup account (opened 25 March), & she would not have noticed it unless mapping Wlsup?

[2015-06-19 16:24:26] <noll>

[2015-06-19 16:26:09] <noll> CN has wrong link:

[2015-06-19 16:27:49] <noll> anyone want a job, pays more if you have experience:

[2015-06-19 16:28:13] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-19 16:28:57] <WISE Up Action> Did you delete Dubya tweet, H?

[2015-06-19 16:29:40] <WikiLeaks> WL is rocking, but even bigger next month.

[2015-06-19 16:29:52] <Emmy B> <3

[2015-06-19 16:30:14] <Emmy B> Great work!

[2015-06-19 16:31:52] <Emmy B> I liked WL wrote up its own research as we get a taste of what is in the cables (non Arabic speakers)

[2015-06-19 16:32:18] <Emmy B> Goodnight everyone 🙂

[2015-06-19 16:32:47] <noll> amazing work Wls! / Action, yes deleted – image wasn’t connected to story, replaced it w/ ‘Civil Service’ executioner job ap form.

[2015-06-19 18:20:24] <noll> Wls, some complaints on Twitter re passport images:

[2015-06-19 18:38:44] <noll> seems SA is collecting Iran Passport Police passports, whatever could officers able to issue passports be paid to be helpful w/.

[2015-06-19 21:50:12] <noll>

[2015-06-19 21:51:44] <noll>

[2015-06-20 03:15:05] <Cabledrum> At least, the name of MGT’s lawyer is public now: Dr. Severin Müller-Riemenschneider @RA_Medienrecht

[2015-06-20 16:58:20] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-20 17:08:41] <noll>

[2015-06-20 17:21:53] <WISE Up Action> Craig gets apoplectic at Werriity!

[2015-06-20 17:41:27] <noll> lots of “blurred lines” & “desire” b/w Fox/ Werritty/ HJS/ UScons

[2015-06-20 17:43:02] <WikiLeaks> NYTimes just called us an “anti-privacy group”.

[2015-06-20 17:49:32] <WISE Up Action> ffs

[2015-06-20 17:49:50] <noll> expect Mafia said same of FBI. from “the transparency group”

[2015-06-20 18:07:13] <M> Collected quite a few of the english #saudicables articles here:

[2015-06-20 18:30:32] <noll> does anyone have text from STimes’ latest?

[2015-06-20 22:06:13] <Cabledrum> Poll: Who of us is blocked by @smsteinitz? Is anyone blocked by @smsteinitz without prior interaction?

[2015-06-21 02:56:03] <Emmy B> It does not seem that I am blocked by steinitz

[2015-06-21 03:14:20] <Emmy B> She seems to be covering Snowden now

[2015-06-21 03:18:56] <Emmy B> If you google translate she follows the Sunday Times article line ‘with an enquiring mind’ and ‘grey’ conclusions.

[2015-06-21 04:36:22] <WISE Up Wales> First tweet against me since armed forces day tweets yesterday. I expect more.

77th Brigade?

[2015-06-21 04:49:43] <noll> Wls, congrats, according to NYT you’re now just “the group WikiLeaks”

[2015-06-21 04:51:13] <noll> STimes latest

[2015-06-21 04:59:47] <Emmy B> genny, I have replied we’ll see whether they engage further. Thanks for sharing are they preparing for part two reason for detaining JA?

[2015-06-21 05:04:44] <noll> Em, Cable, what is situ w/ Cables (still under-way?) and PC (moving to appeal?) cases? & PC judgement – on what grounds did she lose?

[2015-06-21 05:12:07] <noll> also, again.. .. re:

[2015-06-21 05:15:31] <Emmy B> PC case is ongoing. Trying to be helpful, supportive & show discretion according to her specific request.

[2015-06-21 05:16:01] <noll> we want to create Wls/ no harm page, & most important/ useful page on net is memory holed? Wales, Action, or anyone – does anyone know why?

[2015-06-21 05:19:21] <Emmy B> I don’t understand what you mean

[2015-06-21 05:22:10] <noll> we mean – where is Wednesday 31 July, Gen. Robert Carr testimony:

[2015-06-21 05:25:34] <WISE Up Action> Will take a look, H x

[2015-06-21 05:25:39] <Emmy B> My dear H not at all

[2015-06-21 05:26:07] <Emmy B> you can call me at home if you wish 🙂

[2015-06-21 05:38:28] <noll> thanks Action, we understood this “no harm” testimony was v. important, & a. it’s gone, b. we need for a page. Em, well, we hope not, but –

[2015-06-21 05:41:40] <noll> – find it hard to think of other reasons (that make sense). can you send you’re number via DM, will try and call later on.

[2015-06-21 05:42:16] <WISE Up Action> OK will do x

[2015-06-21 06:21:05] <WISE Up Action> OK, H –

[2015-06-21 06:24:02] <WISE Up Action> Well, the second is really 82. 2, but the section starts at 81. 11.

[2015-06-21 06:38:08] <noll> thanks Action, but are we missing something? page goes: ’07-30-13-AM-session’ to ’08-01-13-AM-session_0′, where is: 07-31-13-PM-session ?

[2015-06-21 06:45:51] <noll> can you ask CMDF – b/c FPF page doesn’t appear in searches, & god knows how to navigate to transcripts via website.

[2015-06-21 06:55:15] <noll>

[2015-06-21 07:17:41] <WISE Up Action> Thx for the scaggy ST piece – pathetic. Note how they slip in the juxtaposition of Snowden w/bogeyman ‘Vladimir Putin,the Russian president’

[2015-06-21 07:18:05] <WISE Up Action> (looming image of them shaking hands)

[2015-06-21 07:21:26] <WISE Up Action> It’s not ‘to Russia’, or even ‘Putin’, or even ‘the Russian president’ – Putin stays on the page for 5 words in his fullest nomenclature!

[2015-06-21 07:24:09] <WISE Up Action> and I see now what you mean about the missing link (ha) on that page.And yes, their archiving is non-existent (ours too – except there’s

[2015-06-21 07:26:52] <WISE Up Action> to most imp stuff on our home page. Above the blog roll. We’re slowly trying to sort site to be more accessible but it takes time& all busy

[2015-06-21 07:30:48] <WISE Up Action> Will contact CMSN point out it’s a bit imp to get easy access to this (!) but they’re in similar situation,I’d say-& now much diminished,ofc

[2015-06-21 07:58:23] <noll> “intelligence chiefs were furious that accuracy of claims confirmed to Sunday Times by Downing Street &, later, to BBC” articles should

[2015-06-21 08:02:57] <noll> – be used as case studies, absolute classics. thank again Action, we’re going to host, but would be good for them to hv complete set up.

[2015-06-21 13:46:49] <noll>

[2015-06-21 17:18:45] <WISE Up Action>

[2015-06-21 17:21:05] <noll>

[2015-06-21 17:28:17] <WISE Up Action> Cheers, H x Now explain how to access fr yr Home page!

[2015-06-21 17:37:25] <noll> thanks Action, & thanks for help! xx

[2015-06-21 21:42:17] <M> I was hoping this would be a good article, but was underwhelmed. Says “rape allegations” in first paragraph.

[2015-06-22 05:36:16] <WikiLeaks> Do you have the full text?

[2015-06-22 05:53:07] <noll> UN has found Dahiya doctrine/ Hannibal directive to be a war crime:

[2015-06-22 07:26:23] <M> Full text of crikey article here:

[2015-06-22 07:46:13] <WISE Up Action> thanks,M. I think it’s quite helpful – gets a lot of points across in short space. And maybe the ‘rape allegations’ bit a copy editor?

[2015-06-22 09:38:42] <noll> [Tweet] @PGPBOARD seems to have followed Sandra K.

[2015-06-22 09:42:44] <Emmy B> There was a pastebin dox somewhere about Alan Taylor, could have sth to do with it?

[2015-06-22 09:43:43] <Cabledrum> [Tweet] I’ve published a piece on @smsteinitz, in German. Let’s see how quick the lawyers of “Stern” are …

[2015-06-22 09:53:56] <noll> – Google translate hates German.. Is there any way to do an English version, almost anything would be better than:

[2015-06-22 10:08:41] <Cabledrum> I’m very sorry but I’m unable to translate this piece into English

[2015-06-22 10:38:45] <Cabledrum> I’ve found someone who translates it into English until tomorrow

[2015-06-22 14:42:54] <noll> [Tweet],-2.3278149,6z/data=!3m1!4b1?hl=en,-0.076856,13z/data=!3m1!4b1

[2015-06-22 14:47:04] <WISE Up Action> Ha!

[2015-06-22 16:36:54] <WikiLeaks> Ugh, the sound in the French promo video is corrupted.

[2015-06-22 16:55:09] <M> How’s it supposed to be?

[2015-06-22 16:56:22] <WikiLeaks> Less crackly/hissy/overpeaked

[2015-06-22 17:13:17] <M> It’s not that bad. Just sounds like an old war recording.

[2015-06-23 08:29:17] <M>

[2015-06-23 10:59:31] <noll> is this fake, no archive link & can’t find cable despite searches via main keywords:

[2015-06-23 11:10:16] <M> Here it is HP:

[2015-06-23 11:11:16] <Emmy B> The writer Sam Wilkin @WilkinReports could also be asked to link, I will do so, Thanks for the link M

[2015-06-23 11:11:58] <noll> more details:

[2015-06-23 12:13:13] <noll> military pageant 2.0:

[2015-06-23 12:42:59] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-23 12:55:01] <M> The Saudi Cables: Revelations from Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Lebanon, Sudan & Egypt

[2015-06-23 13:15:59] <M> Link for Liberation is wrong

[2015-06-23 15:23:23] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-06-23 15:23:35] <Emmy B>

[2015-06-23 15:24:22] <Emmy B> According to the Telegraph, WikiLeaks is an online Whistleblower!

[2015-06-23 15:41:51] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-23 15:42:59] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-23 15:57:01] <noll> #PJLRenseignement being attached to #FranceLeaks

[2015-06-23 16:06:49] <noll>

[2015-06-23 16:12:27] <M> “There was no instant confirmation of the accuracy of the docs…but WikiLeaks has a track record of publishing intel & diplomatic material”

[2015-06-23 16:12:53] <M> NYT implies WikiLeaks “track record” of 100% accuracy… but can’t actually get themselves to say it.

[2015-06-23 16:13:14] <M> NYT implies WikiLeaks “track record” of 100% authenticity… but can’t actually get themselves to say it.

[2015-06-23 16:14:42] <noll> [Tweet] similar to AP’s “WikiLeaks releases documents *it says* shows NSA”

[2015-06-23 16:18:30] <noll> ah.. they’re v. similar, as in the same..

[2015-06-23 17:39:56] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-23 18:20:10] <LibertarianLibrarian> Wow, I’ve missed a lot. Congrats on the excellent new releases! I’m between days in hospital – back in tomorrow for an overnight.

[2015-06-23 18:21:28] <LibertarianLibrarian> Then hopefully done and well. And I can catch up.

[2015-06-23 18:22:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> Awesome to see the Saudi cables come out – that’s fantastic to get real info on our so-called allies. And wow re the French Presidents!

[2015-06-23 18:39:27] <noll> Jen, hope all’s going well :o) is this 1st NSA cable leak!? yet again – amazing work, Gaelic Rushmore! next up?!

[2015-06-23 19:12:18] <LibertarianLibrarian> Thanks. 1/3 through and ok so far. I think I just killed my RT’ing limit for today catching up.

[2015-06-23 19:13:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> WL is on a roll!!! I’ve been waiting for some hot stuff out of the Middle East, esp. Saudi Arabia. Exciting!!!

[2015-06-23 23:43:51] <M> English live-blog of Hollande meeting

[2015-06-24 03:57:39] <Emmy B> I am extremely sorry to bother you at such time but

[2015-06-24 03:58:11] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-06-24 04:11:20] <Emmy B> sorry, wrong, whois enquiry shows no issue, why is it offline though?

[2015-06-24 04:51:18] <Cabledrum> Indeed strange, site down since Monday

[2015-06-24 04:58:16] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-06-24 04:59:46] <Emmy B> I don’t know whether this is helpful at all as I am technically clueless, wanted to compare Athens Affair (wiretapping scandal 2004/5)

[2015-06-24 05:01:46] <Emmy B> to franceleaks and both above screen shots are from trying to access site via the Athens Affair wikipedia page.

[2015-06-24 05:02:15] <Emmy B> Ping?

[2015-06-24 05:20:59] <Cabledrum> Emmy: There is no content atm,

[2015-06-24 05:23:24] <Emmy B> hahaha ‘it is all Greek to me’

[2015-06-24 05:23:29] <Emmy B> thx

[2015-06-24 05:27:12] <Cabledrum> English translation of my article on Steinitz:

[2015-06-24 05:27:38] <Cabledrum> FWLF was so kind to translate the Stern articles:

[2015-06-24 06:26:12] <LibertarianLibrarian> Wikileaks’ revelation on the French Presidents’ phone tapping made my local news this morning. 🙂

[2015-06-24 06:29:25] <WISE Up Action> Hope you are feeling well, Jenny xx WikiLeaks is flying! Can’t think of 2 much more apposite leaks for this moment in time. Excellent!

[2015-06-24 06:31:08] <Emmy B> FrenchLeaks reported on Classic FM this morning 🙂

[2015-06-24 06:32:27] <Emmy B> @ Jenny when you are out let us know, Ganbatte! <3

[2015-06-24 07:20:25] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-06-24 08:51:46] <M> Thought this was interesting in Guardian article comments – overwhelmingly supportive of JA:

[2015-06-24 08:54:30] <M> “Obama reiterated without ambiguity, his firm commitment to end the practices that may have taken place in the past”

[2015-06-24 11:26:46] <Emmy B> Thanks for sharing M 🙂

[2015-06-24 12:14:06] <Emmy B>

[2015-06-24 12:14:20] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-06-24 12:15:47] <WISE Up Action> Ha – keep em coming!

[2015-06-24 12:16:49] <Emmy B> “Assange had developed a source”

[2015-06-24 12:17:06] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-06-24 12:17:48] <Emmy B> Is the Guardian speaking to special branch over the latest release? I might ask 🙂

[2015-06-24 12:28:34] <WISE Up Action> ‘Developed’ is a bit nasty. Plus:Associates of Snowden have said that they believe he deliberately avoided giving sensitive US documents to

[2015-06-24 12:28:40] <WISE Up Action> Assange

[2015-06-24 12:30:29] <WikiLeaks> It’s Hosenball.

[2015-06-24 12:31:51] <WikiLeaks> We were involved in having him retrenched from Newsweek his reporting was so bad. We celebrated this victory only to find him at Reuters.

[2015-06-24 12:31:57] <WISE Up Action> Aha

[2015-06-24 12:32:28] <WikiLeaks> He does have close contacts to US intelligence, but then he also invents.

[2015-06-24 12:45:37] <Emmy B> oh Thank you 🙂

[2015-06-24 13:04:08] <noll> re

[2015-06-24 13:32:59] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-24 15:55:40] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-24 16:17:17] <Emmy B> thx for sharing this is good!

[2015-06-24 18:17:04] <noll>

[2015-06-25 05:22:20] <noll>

[2015-06-25 08:13:58] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’m back or at least home resting for a few days.

[2015-06-25 09:59:31] <Emmy B> Wonderful Jenny, hope for a good recuperation, go with the flow 🙂 x

[2015-06-25 13:51:00] <Emmy B> [Tweet] at this tweet you have a blank page no FOX link

[2015-06-25 14:55:35] <noll> so, Wls uses:

[2015-06-25 14:56:53] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-25 15:48:29] <noll> should add a ? to previous.

[2015-06-25 16:00:25] <noll> [Tweet] within decade world may well be in state of emergency – & that’ll be dawn of surveillance society.

[2015-06-25 16:20:46] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-25 17:22:13] <WikiLeaks> Hazel: Just relates to that site.

[2015-06-25 20:04:02] <noll> understood.

[2015-06-26 06:59:49] <noll> telesur update on inheritance tax protests:

[2015-06-26 07:25:09] <noll> Correa’s reform (35 up to 47.5%) definitely on high side of norms:$FILE/2013-international-estate-and-inheritance-tax-guide.pdf

[2015-06-26 07:28:36] <noll> questions re stability – whether up-mid/ mid class consider themselves next/ view changes as political attack on power base. Correa calls

[2015-06-26 07:34:00] <noll> – on coup narrative, but he’s certainly up for a fight – nothing gradual to soften opposition. so, is it ‘soft coup’ or ‘coup bait’?

[2015-06-26 08:20:44] <noll>

[2015-06-26 08:35:22] <WikiLeaks> Correa’s trying to push family holdings into limited by share companies as their more flexible and to hit dynasties. The tax is 2% for <35k

[2015-06-26 08:36:32] <WikiLeaks> But it has galvanized the rich and the “rich as soon as my relative dies” lot.

[2015-06-26 08:37:17] <WikiLeaks> They’ve then pushed this into the media vehicles they control and presented it as a general attack on the family.

[2015-06-26 08:37:56] <WikiLeaks> Then attached this to other Correa irritants.

[2015-06-26 08:38:27] <WikiLeaks> Pope is visiting in a week so they know they only have a week to make it work as the Pope will be a calmer.

[2015-06-26 09:14:35] <noll> UK has 40% & one threshold (similar level to Ecu’s high band) w/ offsetting via charity, Ecu offsetting via shares is good re dynasties, –

[2015-06-26 09:22:18] <noll> – guess it’s question of best time to take those interests on, & now is the best time. & yes, Pope visit could help.

[2015-06-26 09:26:46] <noll> google url tranlstion proving difficult, some alternatives here:

[2015-06-26 13:09:49] <noll>

[2015-06-26 13:14:17] <Emmy B> Greek Parliamentary commission on “The Athens Affair” and “Pythia I” (assassination plan for Kostas Karamanlis whilst PM) has completed

[2015-06-26 13:14:41] <Emmy B> its work and the file passed on to judicial authority.

[2015-06-26 13:15:23] <noll>

[2015-06-26 13:15:35] <Emmy B> WikiLeaks Cables used by the commission to put context historical & diplomatic understanding to the story.

[2015-06-26 13:16:06] <Emmy B> worth the read :

[2015-06-26 13:16:29] <Emmy B> Original Greek

[2015-06-26 13:18:12] <Emmy B> this story will be around for many days, I will summarise findings when I get a chance. Other than the WL press article I co-wrote

[2015-06-26 13:19:02] <Emmy B> there have not been much published on the story since the well known ‘The Athens Affair” article published by Privacy International all

[2015-06-26 13:19:28] <Emmy B> those years ago, now I think the story will be reported by the international press.

[2015-06-26 13:21:02] <Emmy B> I just saw the WL tweet on the story, many thanks for picking up the story, really important to get to the truth and the bottom of matter

[2015-06-26 13:21:56] <Emmy B> The particular PM resigned early before the conclusion of his term and it is rumoured as a result of the pressures on him and that plot.

[2015-06-26 13:23:11] <Emmy B> The present gov coalition in Greece contains the minority partner ANEL, a splinter from the traditional right wing party New Democracy.

[2015-06-26 13:24:00] <Emmy B> Despite his splitting off, he remains close to the Karamanlis fraction of the New Democracy party (now headed by Samaras)

[2015-06-26 13:24:56] <Emmy B> The current President of democracy is also from the Karamanlis fraction (a deal brokered by ANEL)

[2015-06-26 13:25:44] <Emmy B> I will be very much surprised if they let this story go away any time soon. In particular considering the current gov’s position towards

[2015-06-26 13:25:57] <Emmy B> energy co-operation with Russia

[2015-06-26 13:26:59] <Emmy B> which rings a familiar tone with Karamanlis’s energy strategy.

[2015-06-26 13:29:43] <Emmy B> So interesting 🙂 Thnk you WL 🙂

[2015-06-26 19:41:10] <noll>

[2015-06-27 06:32:58] <noll> Em, thank for sharing, do you know if the commission’s findings are online anywhere? h xx

[2015-06-27 07:20:27] <noll> no comment needed:

[2015-06-27 19:35:55] <noll> great (pre-Snowden) anecdote from 6.25 “it literally made him sick”:

[2015-06-28 10:27:42] <M> Today’s NYTimes comic references TPP and FranceLeaks:

[2015-06-28 11:26:45] <noll> [Tweet] yet to see msm article mentioning GR instability/ possibility of fear driven coup:

[2015-06-28 11:34:52] <noll>

[2015-06-28 11:39:42] <Emmy B> 176 votes pro referendum include the Golden Dawn MPs voting with the Syriza / ANEL gov. Who’s gonna do the coup? Samaras New Democracy is

[2015-06-28 11:41:00] <Emmy B> going to be the big loser I think. Already Castas Karamanlis (embolden by the wiretapping result publicity?) is poking his head and

[2015-06-28 11:42:53] <Emmy B> making public statements after 6 years of silence. The Greek President Pavlopoulos is briefing Karamanlis first then Samaras.

[2015-06-28 11:44:48] <Emmy B> But everything is very difficult and will remain so for a while.

[2015-06-28 11:47:33] <Emmy B> There are deeply entrenched interests financial, political patronage and security links with NATO with the US & allies, the constraints

[2015-06-28 11:48:40] <Emmy B> are many. As long as gov remains uncorrupt whatever steps they take will be for the best.

[2015-06-28 11:49:46] <Emmy B> Parliament president recently visited the parliamentary vaults and got photographed in the place where ‘the Files of Cyprus’ are held

[2015-06-28 11:50:19] <LibertarianLibrarian> I wish the new Greek govt all the best. Looks like they’re facing some of the issues Correa is in Ecuador only worse b/c of NATO & EU.

[2015-06-28 11:50:44] <Emmy B> documents that remain secret for 40 years since the 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus

[2015-06-28 11:51:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> I just wish I could get a govt that isn’t buried in corruption. Other than a few standouts… *sigh*

[2015-06-28 11:52:46] <LibertarianLibrarian> Maybe those will get released to history some time, Emmy.

[2015-06-28 11:53:33] <Emmy B> This visit was a message and photo opportunity was a political message.

[2015-06-28 11:53:47] <Emmy B> I hope so too Jenny <3

[2015-06-28 11:55:32] <LibertarianLibrarian> We need more protected, unredactable, undeletable archived like WL is creating. As bad as some of it makes my country’s govt look

[2015-06-28 11:56:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> deservedly so, I’m glad for PLUSD and the others. Historically, culturally, ethically, politically invaluable.

[2015-06-28 11:57:14] <Emmy B> I agree! 🙂

[2015-06-28 11:58:12] <LibertarianLibrarian> Anyway, congrats on Greece’s growing independence – loved seeing the call for a national referendum and the effect. 🙂

[2015-06-28 12:01:11] <LibertarianLibrarian> It’s a tough balance internal to any country and internationally, balancing growing worldwide connectivity with national sovereignity

[2015-06-28 12:02:32] <LibertarianLibrarian> And encouraging multiple cultures, religions, beliefs inside a locality while maintaining civil liberties and balance simultaneously.

[2015-06-28 12:05:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> Integrate with equality before the law for all yet encouraging diversity and allowing individual beliefs, even when they disgust you.

[2015-06-28 12:06:25] <LibertarianLibrarian> Wonder if we’ll ever get it right?

[2015-06-28 12:06:38] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-28 12:12:20] <Emmy B> Defence Minister Kammenos just offered US another NATO base in Carpathos who is going to sponsor a coup? Gov retains intact mil co-operation

[2015-06-28 12:13:07] <Emmy B> with Israel.

[2015-06-28 12:14:46] <LibertarianLibrarian> Gah, wish they’d toss out the US bases. We don’t need to be sending more troops & spending the $ we need to pay debt & fix problems at home.

[2015-06-28 12:16:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> When I think of conditions in places like Detroit, I get so angry we’re spending billions to put soldiers where not needed or worse.

[2015-06-28 12:16:57] <Emmy B> agree Jenny!

[2015-06-28 12:18:32] <LibertarianLibrarian> Bet cost of 1 base would pay for so much good at home. ARGH! The whole world is insane it seems.

[2015-06-28 12:18:57] <Emmy B> very true

[2015-06-28 12:19:45] <noll> mil-mil relations w/ US are good, but follow the money, or lack of:

[2015-06-28 12:20:28] <LibertarianLibrarian> Like the counts of all the £s spent detaining Julian instead of helping UK citizens.

[2015-06-28 12:20:45] <noll> – traditional ‘restabilizing’ coup. obviously, only in event of huge unrest.

[2015-06-28 12:21:30] <noll> *plenty

[2015-06-28 12:25:44] <LibertarianLibrarian> Craziness! Hate to even think what some of those funds pay for, esp. In places like El Salvador.

[2015-06-28 12:30:44] <Emmy B> I am not going speculate further re Greece a week is a week, we will see how the vote goes, printers will be busy.

[2015-06-28 12:32:24] <Emmy B> but I found the Saudi cable interesting

[2015-06-28 12:34:25] <LibertarianLibrarian> I am not sure I want to know who they gave it to – well, I do, but in a ‘watching a postmortem’ kind of way, you know it’ll be bad but need

[2015-06-28 12:34:35] <LibertarianLibrarian> to know

[2015-06-28 12:35:02] <LibertarianLibrarian> In faint hope one could stop it from happening again.

[2015-06-28 12:36:58] <LibertarianLibrarian> OK, I’m taking a mid afternoon nap. Back to work tomorrow and I’m still sore and bruised. Night y’all.

[2015-06-28 12:38:23] <noll> night Jen, xx

[2015-06-28 12:41:52] <Emmy B> take care!

[2015-06-28 13:57:13] <noll> “the document speaks for itself” here’s two previous Tim Weiner/ c-span:

[2015-06-28 14:07:14] <noll> use on espionage on journalists from 13.00, Blank Check interview.

[2015-06-28 17:13:51] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-28 17:58:58] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-28 18:04:03] <noll> considering technology available – that’s probably? the most inept media campaign we’ve ever seen.

[2015-06-29 04:10:43] <M> Haha, Indians have started #JulianAssangeOnceToldMe hashtag in response to the false Lucman/MQM claim.

[2015-06-29 06:33:31] <LibertarianLibrarian> I love it! The hashtag is brilliant!

[2015-06-29 07:03:31] <noll>

[2015-06-29 07:04:29] <noll> cables are just media round-ups, & afa can see nothing re funding.

[2015-06-29 07:18:14] <noll>

[2015-06-29 12:17:27] <noll>

[2015-06-29 12:20:01] <noll> devastating paragraphs in both of those on EU/ IMF – a sort of slow shock doctrine.

[2015-06-29 14:27:09] <Emmy B> Amazing release WL ! amazing!

[2015-06-30 00:11:12] <M> [Tweet] Moscovici tweet from June 24 that he’d be “shocked” if NSA spied on him

[2015-06-30 00:11:29] <M> Guess he’s shocked!

[2015-06-30 04:19:06] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-06-30 05:18:21] <noll>

[2015-06-30 06:36:12] <noll>

[2015-06-30 06:37:27] <noll> “Englishmen the heart of the global Freemasonry [cult]”

[2015-06-30 10:11:33] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-06-30 10:11:53] <Emmy B>

[2015-06-30 10:36:46] <Emmy B> This is a Syriza/ANEL gov of national emergency, they will not upset Nato and appointing the ANEL leader to the Ministry of defense means

[2015-06-30 10:37:35] <Emmy B> exactly that, although Kamenos will continue purchasing military spares from Russia for some limited Russian armaments purchased in the past

[2015-06-30 10:38:36] <Emmy B> no one is going to challenge NATO because they understand US will whistle & our ‘friendly neibours’ will smile.

[2015-06-30 10:39:05] <Emmy B> Extraordinary statements by Davutoglu today

[2015-06-30 11:42:41] <noll>

[2015-06-30 12:07:29] <Cabledrum> My lawyer informed me that the court fees for MGT’s lost injunction have been paid by a legal expense insurance

[2015-06-30 12:15:46] <noll> “children can do it, until we educate them out of it.”

[2015-06-30 12:16:48] <noll> Cables. thank for update, good luck going forward.

[2015-06-30 14:03:46] <Emmy B> Thanks Cabledrummer, good to know!

[2015-06-30 18:47:58] <LibertarianLibrarian> Hopefully that means when you win, you will get your costs paid via his insurance. Bet he’d claim he couldn’t pay otherwise. Good luck!

[2015-06-30 21:28:25] <WikiLeaks> What’s that Fuck Glastonbury related to?

[2015-06-30 22:23:31] <noll> speaking of which but hopefully not – Snowden teaser:

[2015-06-30 23:46:22] <Emmy B> “The Transparency Lobby Group”

[2015-07-01 02:53:47] <M> French PM is a stick-in-the-mud:

[2015-07-01 10:20:59] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-01 10:25:21] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-01 10:27:33] <Emmy B> Thank you wikileaks!!!! <3

[2015-07-01 10:44:04] <noll> if that’s what Merkel thinks then this:

[2015-07-01 10:54:07] <Emmy B> Of course it is!

[2015-07-01 14:20:20] <noll>

[2015-07-01 14:33:06] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-01 15:15:04] <M> Patti Smith’s full Glastonbury set (in which she dedicates a song to WikiLeaks):

[2015-07-01 15:23:38] <Emmy B> Mum is 80 she loves WL 🙂 needed no persuading 🙂 they knew how to rock and roll those oldies 🙂

[2015-07-01 18:05:43] <LibertarianLibrarian> I tweeted the Merkel release to my set of Congressmen good on surveillance issues plus some Senators.

[2015-07-01 18:05:49] <LibertarianLibrarian> WTF was the NSA thinking tapping her again?!

[2015-07-01 18:08:30] <LibertarianLibrarian> Meanwhile, I’m back in the emergency room tonight. Argh! it’s 2am in the UK so you’re all sleeping I’m sure.

[2015-07-01 18:28:02] <WikiLeaks> Sucks.

[2015-07-01 22:20:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> Wow, you were up late! Hope you get some sleep. I’ve likely got appendicitis according to the docs.

[2015-07-01 23:52:14] <LibertarianLibrarian> Now they’re not sure. Basically, they just don’t know. So I’m being observed overnight. Joy.

[2015-07-01 23:52:47] <LibertarianLibrarian> Good morning UK and European friends!

[2015-07-02 00:45:30] <WISE Up Wales> hi jenny. that sounds bad. they decided what’s wrong yet?

[2015-07-02 01:24:31] <WISE Up Action> Good morning.

[2015-07-02 02:31:14] <Emmy B> Good morning 🙂 (I love this)

[2015-07-02 05:40:50] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-02 05:42:19] <noll> morning Jen, is everything okay?

[2015-07-02 05:49:33] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-02 06:01:31] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-02 06:13:41] <noll>

[2015-07-02 06:15:14] <noll> all other analysis sections seem fine.

[2015-07-02 06:18:31] <M> There’s an extra “analysis” folder in the urls that just needs to be removed.

[2015-07-02 06:19:19] <WikiLeaks> m, can you be clearer?

[2015-07-02 06:20:03] <M> So on this page:

[2015-07-02 06:20:55] <M> First HTML link works, HTML link at bottom needs to be fixed.

[2015-07-02 06:21:53] <M> My first comment was wrong, sorry. Both HTML and PDF at bottom need to be fixed.

[2015-07-02 06:39:38] <LibertarianLibrarian> Hi all. I’m just sitting in the hospital waiting for the surgeons to decide what to do. So it’s good to see you all up and active.

[2015-07-02 06:57:38] <WISE Up Action> Love to you, Jenny xx

[2015-07-02 10:13:18] <Emmy B> Jenny <3

[2015-07-02 12:02:51] <noll>

[2015-07-02 12:03:15] <noll> best wishes Jen xx

[2015-07-02 12:26:07] <Emmy B> wow GG

[2015-07-02 14:25:53] <WikiLeaks> hmm?

[2015-07-02 14:35:21] <noll> are Blocknet/ Horizon any good?

[2015-07-02 15:27:29] <noll> of interest:

[2015-07-02 15:30:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> Everyone wish Julian a very happy birthday for me tomorrow. They’re taking out my appendix then.

[2015-07-02 15:31:36] <LibertarianLibrarian> So many awesome WL releases! Love to see this! Keep those bullies on the hot seat! 🙂

[2015-07-02 16:21:27] <Bean> all the best Jenny! happy birthday Julian! hugs all round… i’m lurking here (like the nsa), listening to all, do sing out if u need…

[2015-07-02 16:21:43] <Bean> any graphic design assistance 🙂

[2015-07-02 16:41:19] <LibertarianLibrarian> 🙂

[2015-07-02 22:47:36] <Emmy B> Happy Birthday to Julian <3 May more of your amazing dreams come true! Big Thank you for WL!

[2015-07-02 22:48:42] <Emmy B> (GG=George Galloway about adopting bitcoin for Mayoral expenses)

[2015-07-02 22:49:58] <Emmy B> Oh please no MGT poster he’s not worth it

[2015-07-02 22:55:44] <Emmy B> On a Greek note: living abroad is difficult to get the pulse of the country but capital controls have spread fear to all.

[2015-07-02 22:58:51] <Emmy B> fear not only financial. The ‘yes’ campaign misdirects to ‘yes to Europe” rather than ‘yes to austerity’

[2015-07-02 23:00:56] <Emmy B> prompting all kinds of established interests to echo ‘yes to Europe’ – 16 top ranking generals issued open letter ‘Greece belongs to Europe’

[2015-07-02 23:02:54] <Emmy B> The political tremors reveal the insecurity of the country regarding its sovereignty. Statements by Tsipras yesterday at Ministry of Defence

[2015-07-02 23:05:47] <Emmy B> visit that the country’s geopolitical direction remains the same (ie we stay in NATO/EU) would not have been necessary if not heavyweights

[2015-07-02 23:09:04] <Emmy B> did not apply pressure that Tsipras’ gov emancipating referendum rocking the boat of status quo is a dangerous sign of independent politics.

[2015-07-02 23:11:47] <Emmy B> Dangerous not so much because it offers the people a say directly, challenging the elitist aspect of representative democracy (although

[2015-07-02 23:13:14] <Emmy B> there is an aspect of this too) but also dangerous because of what US might do (UK previously) echoing Greece/Cyprus past of being very

[2015-07-02 23:14:11] <Emmy B> much a foreign protectorate (Cyprus pervertedly still is).

[2015-07-02 23:16:07] <Emmy B> Awaiting the referendum results with interest. Syriza got 36% in January. What will the ppl vote? will fear prevail?

[2015-07-03 00:34:38] <Emmy B> Every single party, ex PM of last 30 years campaigns ‘yes’ to austerity as ‘yes’ to Europe. Private Media all en mass pro yes.

[2015-07-03 01:59:51] <Emmy B> @ WL for info: Ethnos keeps the content of Article at minimum on their online publication leaving the details for the printed edition.

[2015-07-03 04:44:16] <noll> Em, ->

[2015-07-03 04:46:39] <noll> & in takes 10 minutes to read..

[2015-07-03 04:46:55] <noll> *it takes

[2015-07-03 04:49:21] <Emmy B> Well I wonder how many votes this rejection has cost Hollande, Europe is changing, slowly but surely.

[2015-07-03 04:50:36] <Emmy B> WikiLeaks & Assange case has become a standard against which one can judge someone’s liberality and faith in democracy.

[2015-07-03 05:07:54] <WISE Up Action> This is an excellent & most moving letter.I salute you,Julian,& honour your sacrificial Love.May it be to you 100fold

[2015-07-03 05:21:57] <Emmy B> Agree! you will be rewarded in this life and in the next xxx

[2015-07-03 05:33:11] <Bean> hp – sure, send me an email with your ideas 🙂

[2015-07-03 05:35:19] <noll> thanks :o) will do.

[2015-07-03 05:35:21] <noll>

[2015-07-03 05:36:27] <Emmy B> MGT has removed the entire defamatory board off the fakers forum where he posted threads against supporters.

[2015-07-03 05:39:40] <noll>

[2015-07-03 05:43:52] <noll> hmm

[2015-07-03 05:56:19] <noll>

[2015-07-03 06:46:08] <LibertarianLibrarian> Hi all! As you’ve said, felicitations to Julian on his birthday, a heartfelt thank you for all you’ve done for us, and best wishes.

[2015-07-03 06:47:13] <LibertarianLibrarian> For me, yippy, they’re not doing the appendectomy. I get to go home on antibiotics. Bad news, last week’s surgery failed so a fib back.

[2015-07-03 06:47:47] <LibertarianLibrarian> Guess we all just keep struggling through.

[2015-07-03 06:48:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> And I agree, Emmy, WikiLeaks & Assange case is a standard against which one can judge someone’s liberality and faith in democracy.

[2015-07-03 09:22:05] <WISE Up Action> Oh, Jenny, that’s BS that it failed. Thinkin of you x

[2015-07-03 10:41:54] <LibertarianLibrarian> #LotsO’Leaks ? 😆

[2015-07-03 10:42:46] <LibertarianLibrarian> Sorry, I’m on good drugs while waiting to hopefully get out of here.

[2015-07-03 10:44:18] <LibertarianLibrarian> And thanks, I knew it had a 60% success rate going in.

[2015-07-03 14:49:11] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-03 15:32:02] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s a great photo and sentiment. Jesselyn is kick ass! I admire her a lot.

[2015-07-03 23:31:31] <M> Interesting: Sweden’s Left Party is learning all it can from Ecuador’s current administration, says party leader Jonas Sjöstedt.

[2015-07-03 23:31:33] <M>—Lessons-from-Ecuador-20150703-0033.html

[2015-07-04 03:35:57] <noll> fair number of trolls hopped on Guardian/ AP’s spectacularly lazy/ “allegations by” bullshit article:

[2015-07-04 03:36:24] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-04 03:40:18] <noll>

[2015-07-04 04:19:37] <noll> great to see Glenn & David byline.

[2015-07-04 04:42:11] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-04 04:53:52] <noll> & we’ve finally been blocked by @wikileaks_forum :o)

[2015-07-04 05:11:11] <Emmy B> oh they just unblocked me , the man is playing games as usual… *ignoring* but rest assured not idle on the real matter 🙂

[2015-07-04 05:15:47] <noll>

[2015-07-04 05:22:33] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-07-04 05:22:41] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-07-04 05:45:29] <noll>

[2015-07-04 05:51:14] <noll> (we’ve deliberately left fake forum’s translation unchanged).

[2015-07-04 09:45:35] <WISE Up Action> Are you saying that the translation you published is from fake forum, H? Sorry – confused. x

[2015-07-04 10:06:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> Nice new release. Sent to my list of the best in Congress on surveillance & my own Rep, Sens, few others. 🙂

[2015-07-04 12:13:03] <noll> Action, yes it is, see:

[2015-07-04 13:56:08] <noll> now changed a few bits & pieces, & sourced to a pastebin. prove it – etc.

[2015-07-04 14:11:25] <LibertarianLibrarian> LOL.

[2015-07-04 20:28:10] <WISE Up Action> This is my take on letter –

[2015-07-04 23:36:01] <Emmy B>

[2015-07-04 23:36:43] <Emmy B> News Feed in English regarding Greek developments today

[2015-07-05 03:18:21] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-07-05 03:49:22] <Emmy B> Good news thank you for sharing !

[2015-07-05 04:57:46] <noll> Action, looks really great, can we use and link back in a week or so? – we’d like to leave door open for MGT’s supposed lawsuit, which

[2015-07-05 05:00:30] <noll> – could be of interest.

[2015-07-05 05:00:49] <noll>

[2015-07-05 05:27:25] <Emmy B> @ H Interesting in so far as ‘the forum’ could not enact a lawsuit without revealing ownership identity. Only MGT can enact as an individual

[2015-07-05 05:29:42] <Emmy B> Note: Ownership may have now become corporate adding more layers of protection and liability protection for MGT

[2015-07-05 06:33:09] <LibertarianLibrarian> Thank you, Emmy for the feed. Historic events. So glad to see democracy at work in its heart.

[2015-07-05 06:34:04] <LibertarianLibrarian> MGT and the WLF go from one insanity to another.

[2015-07-05 08:11:02] <WISE Up Action> Any1 welcome to use,H, w/o need for credit;it’s better English & may convey sense better, but I think it might be a good idea to run it past

[2015-07-05 08:11:49] <WISE Up Action> someone else I know for accuracy first.

[2015-07-05 10:39:24] <Emmy B> Greferendum is over what a relief, no dead or injured, no ‘troubles’ I can smile and smile, could it be such history is in the past?

[2015-07-05 10:39:39] <Emmy B> at least for now 🙂

[2015-07-05 10:43:39] <Emmy B> In January election Syriza won the election today they seemed to win the right to govern.

[2015-07-05 10:44:34] <Emmy B> unbelievable results projected a ‘No’ vote at 60 % let’s see it to the end though

[2015-07-05 11:13:28] <noll> hi Action, it seems fine. we’ll link back as soon as finished w/ MGT.

[2015-07-05 11:21:31] <WISE Up Action> Just getting it checked by french speaker now, H. And still noticing silly single word errors myself! Do what you want but will let you know

[2015-07-05 11:21:51] <WISE Up Action> when fully corrected x

[2015-07-05 11:22:11] <noll>

[2015-07-05 13:21:48] <LibertarianLibrarian> Wow, Emmy, that would be really decisive. Hope your family is well during all this.

[2015-07-05 13:26:06] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-05 13:41:23] <Emmy B> @ Jenny Thank you ! all is well. @ hazel yes resignation very timely, Bakogianni (Mitsotakis’s daughter demanded it publically) her dad a

[2015-07-05 13:42:47] <Emmy B> party heavyweight, both of his children high in the party, Bakogianni has served as foreign minister (see cablegate), his son an MP.

[2015-07-05 13:42:52] <Emmy B> *yes this is Greece*

[2015-07-05 13:43:54] <Emmy B> Her first husband was assassinated by 17th of November. She is very well respected in the party although never favoured with leadership.

[2015-07-05 13:45:13] <Emmy B> Current husband was mentioned having undeclared $ abroad. The Mitsotaki family are from Crete, pro US. Father was PM for many years.

[2015-07-05 13:48:29] <Emmy B> It is not clear to me who may take Samaras place.

[2015-07-05 13:49:47] <Emmy B> Internal changes in New Democracy party may cause the gov some heartache as Anel MPs still close to ND (their party of origin) and with

[2015-07-05 13:50:27] <Emmy B> changes at mothership they may wish to jump their current ship, to bring the coalition down. All senarios, one thing is for sure the road is

[2015-07-05 13:50:38] <Emmy B> bumpy.

[2015-07-05 13:51:33] <Emmy B> @ WL thank you so much for all you have done, I hope the troika plans exposed bring some more hope to many <3

[2015-07-05 13:54:43] <LibertarianLibrarian> Wishing for the best, Emmy. Looks like the Greek people have support from many people worldwide.

[2015-07-05 14:15:27] <Emmy B> It is very moving and very unbelievable.

[2015-07-05 14:52:10] <WISE Up Action> It IS very moving, Em. Congrats. So encouraging to see people actually rejecting MSM brainwashing. I bet you’re in shock! xx

[2015-07-05 18:37:48] <LibertarianLibrarian> [Tweet] Hope WL is grabbing this too. Hacking Team got hacked.

[2015-07-05 21:46:48] <LibertarianLibrarian> ? Pls do explain some time.

[2015-07-05 22:20:37] <M> Strange blip about JA/Puig/Marshal at bottom of Daily Mail article:

[2015-07-05 22:24:52] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-07-05 22:27:57] <M> Always amusing/sad how they redact the documents publicly available through WL.

[2015-07-06 05:39:01] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-06 06:38:42] <Emmy B> Thanks for sharing H

[2015-07-06 06:43:17] <noll> thanks, –

[2015-07-06 06:56:36] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-06 07:15:48] <noll> see: @csoghoian for HT client list.

[2015-07-06 07:28:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> I know Barret’s case, just… this was all over Twitter, reaching thousands of people already, so it didn’t occur to me at this time.

[2015-07-06 07:31:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> I wonder how many people it did reach, take ioerror’s thousands, my thousand, other RT’s followers and so on.

[2015-07-06 07:36:50] <noll> have no idea how Brown case effects things, some journalists are linking, some are not, & perhaps waiting for it to be covered by 1st Amen

[2015-07-06 07:36:58] <noll> – via publishing.

[2015-07-06 07:38:41] <noll> [Tweet] interesting, is this bullshit?

[2015-07-06 07:41:48] <LibertarianLibrarian> I wouldn’t trust the source. Regardless, the stable doors are wide open and the horses out, to use an old cliché.

[2015-07-06 07:44:19] <LibertarianLibrarian> They were forced to drop it in Barret’s case and that wasn’t Twitter which spreads like wildfire.

[2015-07-06 08:05:05] <noll> he’s run away:

[2015-07-06 08:06:41] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-06 08:16:58] <LibertarianLibrarian> Barrett’s real issues were his angry reaction to the FBI abusing his mother – he publicly threatened an FBI agent. That’s why he’s in jail.

[2015-07-06 08:18:04] <LibertarianLibrarian> I don’t blame him much, if it was my Mom I’d react badly too, but he went just a bit overboard. Still, I think the FBI is truly at fault.

[2015-07-06 08:18:57] <LibertarianLibrarian> They are allowed too much leeway to abuse people during investigations, same problem we have with local police.

[2015-07-06 08:19:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> This country desperately needs enforced accountability for law enforcment.

[2015-07-06 08:19:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> But that’s another soapbox.

[2015-07-06 08:33:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’ve seen people posting mirror sites for the material already. In this case, they can’t focus on an individual, it’s internationally spread

[2015-07-06 08:34:22] <LibertarianLibrarian> I never accessed the site, just RT’d ioerror and Chris S.

[2015-07-06 08:34:54] <LibertarianLibrarian> Looks like Intercept’s got it all too.

[2015-07-06 08:40:51] <noll>

[2015-07-06 08:42:03] <noll> scroll down, v. funny

[2015-07-06 08:47:18] <noll> re BB.. gd work w/ prjPM? but overboard from start, & knew where that was going.

[2015-07-06 08:59:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> LOL, Thanks Hazel, the one about the Russian Secret Police is hilarious!

[2015-07-06 09:01:11] <LibertarianLibrarian> Re BB, he’s a gifted, brilliant writer but was having addiction problems. I hope he’s fully over those. Hate to see such talent wasted.

[2015-07-06 09:04:56] <noll>

[2015-07-06 09:32:52] <noll>

[2015-07-06 09:37:57] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-06 10:11:50] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-06 10:15:32] <Emmy B> Horrid!

[2015-07-06 10:28:21] <noll> Em, ->

[2015-07-06 11:03:45] <Emmy B> You will enjoy I think

[2015-07-06 11:05:26] <Emmy B> Although when I read it many years back I could not but note the obvious discriminatory attitudes of the three British Agents, very telling

[2015-07-06 11:05:48] <Emmy B> of British attitudes and agenda at the time.

[2015-07-06 11:12:41] <Emmy B> US involvement in Greece was from at least 1943 with the deployment of OSS

[2015-07-06 11:14:16] <Emmy B> Who recruited locally in Greece members from minor resistance groups (like PAO) for their operations of Monarchical political orientation.

[2015-07-06 11:16:56] <Emmy B> So by the end of the war both British and US had developed a foothold among minority armed groups under their control (and pay) which later

[2015-07-06 11:17:38] <Emmy B> continued their action during the civil war on the side of the British and US for the re-establishment of Monarchy in Greece.

[2015-07-06 11:18:15] <Emmy B> I will take resource to Greece with me for reading 🙂

[2015-07-06 11:37:57] <noll> Em, not sure if you saw this tweet, looks like Greece was also one of first instances of USAID style ‘aid’.

[2015-07-06 11:48:51] <Emmy B> We gave up 600 books in 2006 to our local library to counter balance my ‘must have it, must hoard it’ attitude – I don’t buy books any more.

[2015-07-06 12:18:18] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-06 12:34:09] <noll> can everyone look out for @blumo0n, she wants to put sthing together re MGT/ @support & may be contacting. see:

[2015-07-06 13:00:05] <Emmy B> Wishes to do group complaint to Twitter. Asked for my help/participation. I spend a huge time of fwlf as it is…I think only court order

[2015-07-06 13:00:11] <Emmy B> would work

[2015-07-06 13:01:09] <Emmy B> Problem for me is from now till 26th (going to greece) I have very limited time for any serious work.

[2015-07-06 13:02:04] <noll> well, agree w/ all of that, but would just be a matter of resending previous work?

[2015-07-06 13:04:25] <Emmy B> She contacted me last week, was dealing with sickness at home so I replied but could not devote much time.

[2015-07-06 15:05:23] <M> It’s interesting how few and far between these attack/”causing harm” articles compared to a few years ago.

[2015-07-06 16:42:53] <noll> [Tweet] Saudi response of owning leak rather than US-style threat narrative was interesting, likely to be repeated.

[2015-07-06 16:46:20] <noll> transparencytoolkit under attack, offline.

[2015-07-07 01:45:32] <Emmy B> The Pentagon discussed possible implications of Greek referendum in relation to Greek Nato membership

[2015-07-07 03:33:50] <noll> UK Met/ HT contacts – bottom 1/3 of article:

[2015-07-07 03:37:19] <noll> – like GCHQ:

[2015-07-07 05:52:39] <noll>

[2015-07-07 11:24:47] <noll>

[2015-07-07 11:24:56] <noll>

[2015-07-07 11:45:29] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-07 11:55:37] <noll> interesting discussion re less than literal translations – considering Saudi partners’ actions: “protect” = “spare”, + “support us or else”.

[2015-07-07 12:02:29] <WikiLeaks> The WL translation is a bit inflamitory, but that’s the essense of the message, in the context of the war.

[2015-07-07 12:15:43] <noll> agree, if have date correct, it’s from 3 years ago:

[2015-07-07 12:35:01] <noll> #RedditRevolt – another content/ censorship war unfolds

[2015-07-07 15:19:50] <M> Forgot link:

[2015-07-08 04:07:13] <Emmy B> Excellent!

[2015-07-08 05:06:04] <noll> great article.

[2015-07-08 05:14:00] <noll>

[2015-07-08 05:18:21] <noll> article:

[2015-07-08 05:36:20] <noll> DV 18 year later:

[2015-07-08 05:36:29] <noll> *years

[2015-07-08 05:37:08] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-08 16:22:24] <noll>

[2015-07-08 16:22:47] <Cabledrum> Today, we have filed criminal complaint against MGT for perjury.

[2015-07-08 16:22:53] <Cabledrum> (It took a while because our lawyer is very busy. The complete complaint consists of 60 pages.)

[2015-07-08 17:04:24] <WikiLeaks> Drum, excellent.

[2015-07-08 17:04:42] <WISE Up Action> Here’s our final revised & corrected version of open letter from JA to Hollande (also been checked by French speaker)

[2015-07-08 17:05:07] <WISE Up Action> English translation that is

[2015-07-08 17:05:38] <WikiLeaks> Wise, did you base it on the j4a letter or the one in Le Monde? The latter is not correct.

[2015-07-08 17:06:24] <WikiLeaks> We see, it is the Le Monde one. Can you please make it the j4a one?

[2015-07-08 17:07:43] <noll> great. will update & link back. – is there link to original j4a post?

[2015-07-08 17:08:20] <WikiLeaks> It’s under “press”

[2015-07-08 17:10:22] <noll>

[2015-07-08 17:19:07] <WISE Up Action> Yes, it is the Le Monde. Will revise.

[2015-07-08 17:50:05] <noll> search: Bernstein, looks like p. 46, 47 of doc missing?

[2015-07-08 19:06:44] <WISE Up Action> OK – this is our English translation of the open letter JA to Hollande, now as per J4A correct version.

[2015-07-09 11:38:57] <noll>

[2015-07-09 13:24:27] <noll>

[2015-07-09 16:42:45] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-09 16:46:26] <noll> educated guess..

[2015-07-09 16:55:00] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-07-09 17:00:43] <M> Australian Federal Police “does not confirm or deny” buying spyware from Hacking Team

[2015-07-09 17:03:44] <noll> forwarded previous to SMaurizi.

[2015-07-09 17:27:59] <noll>

[2015-07-09 17:29:27] <noll>

[2015-07-09 19:14:26] <noll> “And rightly so!!!”

[2015-07-10 02:53:17] <Cabledrum> [Tweet] The text about the first German whistleblower protection law is available in English now

[2015-07-10 03:50:16] <Emmy B> The Syria coalition with ANEL first crack. Will the Greek gov fall? The new proposals brokered to allow an agreement with creditors & lead

[2015-07-10 03:51:36] <Emmy B> to ECB to increase liquidity, remove capital controls includes by passing ANEL’s red lines over military spending and island’s special VAT

[2015-07-10 03:52:22] <Emmy B> status. Despite ‘oxi’ there is no true independence in policy making.

[2015-07-10 03:53:17] <Emmy B> Did I say “Syria”? slip of the tongue, I meant Syriza

[2015-07-10 03:54:28] <Emmy B> Thanks for sharing Cabledrummer and for all your hard work regarding the bullying operation of mgt!

[2015-07-10 06:16:40] <LibertarianLibrarian> Thanks Cabledrummer and Emmy for keeping us updated. Good luck.

[2015-07-10 06:27:51] <Emmy B> Good appeal for JA French Asylum

[2015-07-10 06:32:23] <noll> good luck w/ that..

[2015-07-10 06:37:49] <WISE Up Action> Thanks, Em. That’s excellent – hope there’ll be more and more. Amplifies many of the points made in the open letter.

[2015-07-10 06:40:36] <Emmy B> Which confirms it was a good move to write it 🙂 Thanks for translating it, will use in blog post summarising June/July solidarity with WL

[2015-07-10 06:40:55] <Emmy B> including London Pride March xx

[2015-07-10 06:41:33] <Emmy B> will do over weekend, if you could pls edit, would be good <3

[2015-07-10 06:44:08] <noll> it was a good move. is there anyway to get both of the “politicians, intellectuals & artists” letters translated?

[2015-07-10 06:44:41] <WISE Up Action> A very good move – so right to pick up on every opportunity. And it is an historic and moving letter.

[2015-07-10 06:48:12] <LibertarianLibrarian> I agree. Glad to see people in France speaking up for JA.

[2015-07-10 06:50:55] <WISE Up Action> Dunno,H. What nationality is Greta voidiss? I thought to do the letter really because of some familiarity with the style and context.

[2015-07-10 06:51:57] <noll> two of DV’s favs re geopolitiks

[2015-07-10 06:53:12] <WISE Up Action> But maybe could ask one of French speaking ppl who helped check letter. Will see.

[2015-07-10 06:55:35] <noll> Action, we don’t know Greta’s nationality, & don’t know any French speakers. those letters are short, be great to add them to J letter page.

[2015-07-10 06:58:21] <noll> “THE END end of public key cryptography is approaching. A quantum computer is..”

[2015-07-10 08:15:36] <M>

[2015-07-10 08:16:18] <M> Philip Dorling: French spying agency tapping Australia’s communications

[2015-07-10 08:35:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> Greta is Italian.

[2015-07-10 09:21:26] <Emmy B> & lovely, very intelligent young lady, 17 years, with her friend Greta joined us specially from Italy for 3rd Embassy Anniversary vigil.

[2015-07-10 09:42:53] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-10 11:51:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> Emmy, yes, that was Greta and her friend. She and I DM and she said she thought the Vigil was wonderful.

[2015-07-10 12:44:31] <Emmy B> 🙂 as it was the year before Jenny, when we met. Hopefully next 19th of June JA & friends will be sunning themselves some place nice 🙂

[2015-07-10 13:05:00] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, exactly! I’d love an excuse to take a trip to Ecuador! 😃 I vote for a big party there next June!

[2015-07-10 13:12:53] <noll>

[2015-07-10 18:27:46] <WISE Up Action> This is both ludicrous and scurrilous

[2015-07-10 18:31:59] <noll> McLaren’s entire career seems based on exploiting her profoundly uninteresting love life.

[2015-07-10 19:57:38] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-07-11 05:48:36] <noll>

[2015-07-11 06:05:01] <M> Sweden drops case against ice hockey player because he is not expected to return to the country:

[2015-07-11 06:19:30] <WISE Up Action> if google translate is right he was ‘charged in his absence’ and so they actually dropped the charges

[2015-07-11 06:26:46] <Emmy B> @ H yes, very interesting perspective from varufakis on German motivations linked to their fiscal vision for Europe rather than the Greek

[2015-07-11 06:27:32] <Emmy B> situ per ser. Interesting also that reportedly it is the French who have helped Gr gov formulate the current Gr proposal to creditors.

[2015-07-11 06:29:10] <Emmy B> @ M, excellent article, thank you for sharing!

[2015-07-11 09:21:06] <M> Motherboard met with/interviewed Hacking Team after hack (but before WL release)

[2015-07-11 10:00:30] <noll> it’s a sham Wls hasn’t got more historical info on things like:

[2015-07-12 02:20:49] <Emmy B> Cyprus Secret Service Chief resigned yesterday due to the HT scandal

[2015-07-12 02:53:41] <M> Rusbridger interview: attacks JA, then absolves Guardian of any responsibility to protect Snowden.

[2015-07-12 03:09:37] <Emmy B> I passed to Greta B @voidiss link of JA Logan Symposium video speech including comments about the Guardian’s role as she showed interest…

[2015-07-12 03:11:11] <Emmy B> In the aftermath of HT Cyprus scandal & resignation of SS chief, revelations at Cyprus parliament

[2015-07-12 03:11:52] <Emmy B> country assisted NSA spying with help of Deutsche Telecom…

[2015-07-12 05:52:42] <noll> @gerge42’s feeding of @wikileaks_forum is moving from less than helpful, to v. helpful – to Fwlf. not sure what can be done.

[2015-07-12 06:00:39] <Emmy B> nothing

[2015-07-12 06:22:16] <Emmy B> My opinion is that only legal paths are likely to bring about any result but we have seen through Cabledrummmer’s and Chris’s action that

[2015-07-12 06:23:20] <Emmy B> this is time consuming, financially costly, emotionally draining, takes a very long time and not everyone is prepared to go down that path.

[2015-07-12 06:25:17] <Emmy B> We continue to a. support those with legal cases with gathering evidence. b. document what is happening. c. Inform community.

[2015-07-12 06:26:18] <Emmy B> however, individuals who have time and inclination can complain to twitter/FB.

[2015-07-12 06:48:46] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-12 06:55:50] <Emmy B> I believe Varufakis claim that Germany wants and has been for years pursuing #Grexit

[2015-07-12 06:57:16] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-12 06:58:41] <Emmy B> yes I’ve been reading thank you, referendum & Greek gov manoeuvring has forced everyone to show the true colours

[2015-07-12 06:59:51] <Emmy B> but there is more, I for once would like to know to which extend Germany knew Greece/Goldman Saches hiding Greek debt to join Euro.

[2015-07-12 07:01:31] <Emmy B> The then Greek PM Kostas Simitis was of ‘the German fraction’ of PASOK with deep links with Germany, see his brother Spyros Simitis

[2015-07-12 07:02:36] <Emmy B>

[2015-07-12 07:06:35] <Emmy B>

[2015-07-12 07:06:48] <Emmy B> oh those greeks!

[2015-07-12 07:09:47] <noll> agree re true colours:

[2015-07-12 07:19:06] <Emmy B> somehow I very much doubt France and Germany will fall out over Greece.

[2015-07-12 07:20:54] <noll> gd. cop/ bad routine

[2015-07-12 07:24:16] <noll> pity GR isn’t a US crime org posing as a bank:

[2015-07-12 07:24:46] <Emmy B> it is grand theatre indeed but the terms of austerity are very real. The damage is already done in that the ‘European dream’ has evaporated

[2015-07-12 07:25:04] <Emmy B> but maybe this is a good thing.

[2015-07-12 07:26:24] <Emmy B> also implications for plans for a European Army must be affected now…the EU current stand is telling on how it may react at a possible

[2015-07-12 07:27:26] <Emmy B> crisis with Turkey in the Aegean, only a fool now would believe the alliance has benefits re national security.

[2015-07-12 07:29:06] <Emmy B> As time goes all this will sink in to the people’s psychy

[2015-07-12 07:32:12] <Emmy B> Interesting also to see Russia’s stance… to all those who accused Tsipras speaking to Putin as changing geopolitically rather than

[2015-07-12 07:33:27] <Emmy B> just enacting diplomacy…Russia’s complete silence and inactivity proves it has no ambition in this matter other than to score some points

[2015-07-12 07:33:36] <Emmy B> diplomatically.

[2015-07-12 10:48:31] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-12 10:48:56] <noll> [Media-image]

[2015-07-12 10:53:33] <Emmy B> This is the leaked Schoeble non paper that he immediately denied that he would produce at the negotiation, it played its part in convincing

[2015-07-12 10:54:41] <Emmy B> the tinted glasses wearers of how tough he really is, Merkel a kitten by comparison. But this is a tough game.

[2015-07-12 10:55:08] <noll> [Tweet] WashPo..

[2015-07-12 10:55:58] <Emmy B> It is all down to interests but do we really know what interests are represented by whom?

[2015-07-12 10:56:19] <Emmy B> Do we really know what is at play here?

[2015-07-12 10:57:19] <Emmy B> Does anyone know? have a plan? because it seems rather chaotic with so many countries involved

[2015-07-12 10:59:22] <Emmy B> The referendum did clarify many things. For example that political establishment and media lied and colluded and lied some more & but lost

[2015-07-12 11:00:49] <Emmy B> Samaras resigned, but why? after Syriza, New Democracy is the second strongest party, why did its leader resign, he faced no rebellion.

[2015-07-12 11:02:49] <Emmy B> It seems someone whistled and he resigned, no one is asking any questions. They have gone quiet. The temporary leader is very divisive

[2015-07-12 11:03:57] <noll>

[2015-07-12 11:04:23] <Emmy B> and old school right wing, hardly fit to attract new votes or retain what they got in last election,

[2015-07-12 11:04:27] <Emmy B> neither does the party has set process for the selection of new leader.

[2015-07-12 11:05:51] <noll> “Do we really know what is at play here?” not really.. “anyone who is confident about anything here is deluding himself.”

[2015-07-12 11:07:26] <Emmy B> It is all about interests but what are these interest? They must be financial but difficult to really see them. When the political landscape

[2015-07-12 11:08:46] <Emmy B> Europe has become so monotonous, when political ideology has been declared dead in a post modern world and efficiency was the new mantra

[2015-07-12 11:10:19] <Emmy B> e.g. hardly any difference btw Labour/Tories, Pasok/New Democracy… then we look at a barren political landscape.

[2015-07-12 11:11:31] <Emmy B> Even Syriza, with a clear ideological difference, struggles to articulate or bring about a plan outside the established rules of the game

[2015-07-12 11:12:58] <noll> one thing clear re interests – Germany again willing to use force, & its choices follow the old pattern – think SNP’s rose garden just died.

[2015-07-12 11:13:26] <Emmy B> Whatever interests these are, are so institutionalised one might have to live on a different planet to dare to think,

[2015-07-12 11:13:32] <Emmy B> and unable to function in the ‘real world’

[2015-07-12 11:15:07] <Emmy B> Well re Scotland SNP already knows what it means to be conquered and dominated. It already knows that ‘Union’ is a beautification of

[2015-07-12 11:15:23] <Emmy B> what England imposed by force.

[2015-07-12 11:16:12] <Emmy B> We shall see what lessons we all learn from all this.

[2015-07-12 11:18:09] <Emmy B> In the meanwhile, Greece expends all its politics on this matter and the country needs to be governed. Extremely important particularly

[2015-07-12 11:18:18] <Emmy B> in times of crisis.

[2015-07-12 11:18:50] <noll> Syriza made classic mistake of left re German right.

[2015-07-12 11:19:49] <Emmy B> The crisis is dismantling the state due to resource starvation, and is also dismantling the state with political energy trapped in a mire.

[2015-07-12 11:34:11] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-07-12 11:34:52] <M> Combined tweets from a few different accounts that were reporting on #HackingTeam quite often.

[2015-07-12 11:35:30] <WikiLeaks> Germany is centre right dominated, France, centre left, at the political leve. At the economic level France has 100% debt to GDP.

[2015-07-12 11:36:20] <WikiLeaks> France is fightened of German dominance in EU and of its own position re debts to Germany.

[2015-07-12 11:39:07] <WikiLeaks> France has to be seen to be a player in the issue, or it cedes power to Germany over its own debt fate.

[2015-07-12 11:42:56] <noll> Em, final 100 year war b/w Eng/ Scot (after 100 years of ‘peace’ following 60 Indy war) began w/ Scot invading End on behalf of France.

[2015-07-12 11:45:03] <noll> Union (under Scot king) occurred only b/c Scot was bankrupted empire building, after which they became cutting edge of UK empire.

[2015-07-12 11:53:39] <noll> – for history of Scot/ Eng pre Norman conquests see Hadrian’s Wall. anyway, we wouldn’t dismiss Scot agency & powers quite so easily +

[2015-07-12 11:58:30] <Emmy B> re Great Britain, the whole world knows it was an English Empire and that’s why a third of the world speaks English, who speaks Scotish,

[2015-07-12 11:58:37] <Emmy B> Irish or Welsh other than these nationalities?

[2015-07-12 12:00:22] <Emmy B> of course there will be scots/irish/welsh among the ranks of the empire as well as allies from scotland/welsh/irish especially I should say

[2015-07-12 12:01:07] <noll> it’s a bit demeaning.. from a Scot’s perspective.

[2015-07-12 12:01:12] <Emmy B> in feudal times when the lords irrespective of nationality united in oppressing the common people.

[2015-07-12 12:03:13] <noll>

[2015-07-12 12:07:54] <noll> language issue is v. interesting b/c nobility/ admin/ literary classes spoke Anglo-Norman French, & not Old English/ Anglo-Saxon until 1500.

[2015-07-12 12:09:17] <noll> See:

[2015-07-12 12:12:04] <Emmy B>

[2015-07-12 12:13:17] <noll>

[2015-07-12 12:14:49] <noll>

[2015-07-12 12:16:46] <noll> Malcolm from Macbeth..

[2015-07-12 12:23:40] <noll> & not forgetting –

[2015-07-12 12:34:03] <Emmy B> Going back to Greece if I may, Thank you WL for your perspective, reveals a very narrow aspect of the motivation behind how Greece is being

[2015-07-12 12:35:42] <Emmy B> treated. Once more narrowly technocratic rather than political ie, a federation of states (not strictly speaking but still this is

[2015-07-12 12:36:04] <Emmy B> how Eurogroup attempts to behave as) if not ruled by such narrow motivations?

[2015-07-12 12:36:27] <noll> [Tweet] Indeed.

[2015-07-12 12:36:36] <Emmy B> why do they want a common currency for a common market unless they act as such.

[2015-07-12 12:39:03] <Emmy B> imagine Essex going bankrupt within the UK. It would be madness to kick them out of the pound area. The wealthy city on the other hand

[2015-07-12 12:40:24] <Emmy B> despite is semi autonomy is forced to share its wealth tax wise with other pound regions within UK. Euro does not have ways of easing out

[2015-07-12 12:43:21] <Emmy B> structural imbalances that create surpluses/deficits.

[2015-07-12 12:51:18] <Emmy B> *on a humorous point* instead of locking 50 billion worth of Greek assets in Lux as collateral why not demand Lux disclose Greek Tax evaders

[2015-07-12 12:53:06] <Emmy B> and seize their assets? from which Lux benefits, one has to wonder the sanity of the brain that imagined the German plan.

[2015-07-12 14:05:33] <noll>

[2015-07-12 14:05:42] <noll>

[2015-07-12 14:33:32] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-12 14:44:11] <noll> US cable re KfW “formed after World War II as part

of the Marshall Plan”

[2015-07-12 15:13:13] <noll> [Tweet] picking up on Wls comments re France.

[2015-07-12 16:49:30] <noll> “Varoufakis wasn’t exaggerating, after all.”

[2015-07-12 16:54:11] <noll> “German proposals to take over Greek state assets are tantamount to tyranny” Boris Johnson..

[2015-07-12 18:47:40] <noll> this is likely huge underestimate.

[2015-07-12 20:12:32] <noll> both sides:

[2015-07-12 20:22:39] <noll>

[2015-07-12 20:32:33] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-13 01:40:42] <Emmy B> The only winner is Golden Dawn.

[2015-07-13 01:50:20] <Emmy B> I apologise for the link but… it is my translation of a Greek article that I posted at the *now fake* forum about plans for Greece to join

[2015-07-13 01:50:36] <Emmy B> the dollar block

[2015-07-13 01:54:57] <Emmy B> The loss of sovereignty in a country with existential threats (and Greek compliance) sends the worst possible message to those whose who

[2015-07-13 01:57:25] <Emmy B> threaten its very existence. The Oxi in the referendum had more value than billions spent in armaments as a deterrent. Present capitulation

[2015-07-13 01:58:59] <Emmy B> unless a tactical move (which I cannot see as such) it is extremely bad news.

[2015-07-13 02:00:37] <Emmy B> The only good thing is as I said before is the end of the dream, even the most romantic of Greeks had the wool pulled from over their eyes.

[2015-07-13 02:01:29] <Emmy B> Maybe now space will be free for a different kind of dream.

[2015-07-13 02:02:50] <Emmy B> oh, please don’t share the archived link publically, but there are plenty of links at the bottom linking directly to WL database

[2015-07-13 02:05:11] <Emmy B> ah, found it:

[2015-07-13 02:09:13] <Emmy B> Maybe I should transfer all my GIFiles work from the fwlf onto my blog, the articles that I have now posted are now under paywall at TA NEA

[2015-07-13 04:28:04] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-13 04:34:13] <noll> [Tweet] & not just the land, the oil fields & just about everything else.

[2015-07-13 04:58:35] <noll> only recent comparable situ in UK would be RBS 260 bn of dead assets w/i Scot econ of 280 bn GDP, London just bought whatever it needed, &

[2015-07-13 05:01:36] <noll> used that as a mechanism to assist Ireland:

[2015-07-13 05:12:36] <noll> (could add London subsidies – which includes political power, votes on Eng affairs etc – into similarity mix) point is – just where is EU &

[2015-07-13 05:31:15] <noll> Germany headed? b/c it seems to be in opposite dir. to UK.

[2015-07-13 06:00:27] <noll> – of note, while exposure huge, final losses to UK from RBS bail-out likely trivial. so, Greece debt £255 bn, less than RBS & yet..

[2015-07-13 06:09:34] <WISE Up Action>

[2015-07-13 06:10:45] <noll> – the ‘support’ to GR is set behind sustainability, w/ outcome of consuming GDP. everything that has occurred has been deliberate.

[2015-07-13 06:23:15] <noll> PM “finance will be used if you flout the sovereignty of Europe”

[2015-07-13 06:24:15] <Emmy B> Very insightful interview thank you Wise Up!

[2015-07-13 06:24:40] <noll> in terms of restructuring was GR economic sovereignty’.

[2015-07-13 06:26:00] <WISE Up Action> Says it all:”a non-existent group that has the greatest power to determine the lives of Europeans. It’s not answerable to anyone,

[2015-07-13 06:26:34] <WISE Up Action> given it doesn’t exist in law; no minutes are kept; and it’s confidential.”

[2015-07-13 06:27:29] <Emmy B> No minutes taken/published…

[2015-07-13 06:28:03] <WISE Up Action> “And is that group controlled by German attitudes?”

YV: “Oh completely and utterly. Not attitudes – by the finance minister of Germany.”

[2015-07-13 06:28:49] <WISE Up Action> Only the French finance minister has made noises that were different from the German line, and those noises were very subtle.

[2015-07-13 06:28:57] <WISE Up Action> You could sense he had to use very judicious language, to be seen not to oppose.

[2015-07-13 06:29:20] <Emmy B> exactly WL’s point made earlier…

[2015-07-13 06:29:59] <WISE Up Action> Precisely.

[2015-07-13 06:30:25] <Emmy B> I cannot possibly make any predictions, but it might be Greek Parliament does not approve…

[2015-07-13 06:46:49] <WISE Up Action> Tsipras statement:

[2015-07-13 06:55:41] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet]

[2015-07-13 07:20:33] <noll> perhaps better example re banks would be Fed $860 bn bail-out of Barclays – no asset stripping, almost no reform imposed, bonuses intact.

[2015-07-13 08:34:03] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-07-13 08:34:31] <Emmy B> oh great! German and US procurement contracts secure then…I was worried…

[2015-07-13 08:35:08] <Emmy B>

[2015-07-13 09:46:50] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-07-13 09:46:58] <Emmy B> Please RT

[2015-07-13 11:06:34] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-07-13 11:07:40] <Emmy B> In this meeting on the 6th of July all political leaders under the moderating role of the Greek President of the democracy agreed a proposal

[2015-07-13 11:08:56] <Emmy B> to put forward to Eurogroup. Today, Panos Kamenos (leader of the minority party ANEL in coalition) says, that proposal had ben brokered with

[2015-07-13 11:10:04] <Emmy B> the mediation of France, who re-assured them that it would have been accepted at Eurogroup. On that basis the gov took it to parliament &

[2015-07-13 11:10:20] <Emmy B> it was ratified by 251/300 MPs

[2015-07-13 11:11:08] <Emmy B> But when gov went to Eurogroup the proposal was immediately dismissed.

[2015-07-13 11:11:38] <Emmy B> He also talks about ‘coup’ it might be he will leave coalition

[2015-07-13 11:13:11] <Emmy B> He says Tsipras was blackmailed with the total collapse of the banks and the complete haircut of Greek deposits.

[2015-07-13 12:01:31] <M>

[2015-07-13 13:44:00] <noll>

[2015-07-13 13:47:26] <noll> Em, thanks for that info, v. interesting, seems France has also experienced reality check.

[2015-07-13 13:52:42] <Emmy B> very welcome, interesting opinion piece by John Pilger which ring true in as far as no political party in Greece other than the communists

[2015-07-13 13:52:55] <Emmy B> KKE and Golden Dawn have dared to challenge the Euro

[2015-07-13 13:53:45] <Emmy B> or its rules of the game. With regards to varufakis though, we now know why he ‘resigned’

[2015-07-13 13:54:36] <Emmy B>

[2015-07-13 14:49:09] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-13 14:52:47] <noll>

[2015-07-13 15:01:24] <noll>

[2015-07-13 15:08:25] <Emmy B>

[2015-07-14 03:24:53] <Emmy B> Russia has done nothing for Greece since

[2015-07-14 03:28:08] <Emmy B> I think is a waste of time. Only the British Administration continues to trumpet such upsurd notions because it suits their politics.

[2015-07-14 03:32:31] <Emmy B> Russian EU sanctions means Greece has lost 70% of its export market for Agriculture.

[2015-07-14 03:32:44] <Emmy B> It is exactly one more scene in the theatre of the absurd that we currently witness.

[2015-07-14 09:22:22] <WISE Up Action> Extremely late Birthday Trib: ‘Room to Change the World’

[2015-07-14 13:09:58] <Emmy B> Love it! shared <3

[2015-07-14 13:53:54] <LibertarianLibrarian> Nice! Posted on Tumblr, twitter.

[2015-07-14 13:58:50] <M> Hah.

[2015-07-14 14:00:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> Awesome!

[2015-07-14 14:06:21] <noll> [Tweet] can’t stand @20committee, but this is quite funny.

[2015-07-14 14:13:42] <M> How is Donald Trump even real

[2015-07-14 14:17:46] <LibertarianLibrarian> Don’t know, closest I can think of is Fubar: fucked up beyond all recognition.

[2015-07-14 14:19:21] <LibertarianLibrarian> Donald Trump reminds me of John Kerry in that they both appear to be either aliens or robots mimicking humans.

[2015-07-14 14:20:04] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’m pretty sure Kerry is a programmed bot. Trump may be the alien life form.

[2015-07-15 00:27:41] <M> AA making headlines in Swedish press for harassing Muslim author on social media:

[2015-07-15 04:42:37] <noll> twitter storm still underway:

[2015-07-15 04:46:39] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-15 04:48:24] <noll>

[2015-07-15 04:50:51] <Emmy B> Careful of Koutsomitis ( literal translation = lame nose) he is one of those journos delighting in Greece’s woes (plenty of those)

[2015-07-15 04:51:20] <Emmy B> Very proud to let us know he spent 4th of July at US Embassy in Athens.

[2015-07-15 04:54:04] <Emmy B> Re AA – great PR in advance of further statements by her re her case reaching statutory limit. I suppose from then onwards we could expect

[2015-07-15 04:56:01] <Emmy B> monetisation in form of books, articles etc? Which British Tabloid will get the ‘kiss and tell’ story and for how much? Ridiculous!

[2015-07-15 05:15:08] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet] This tomorrow

[2015-07-15 05:18:27] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-15 05:18:53] <Emmy B> In his parliamentary speech today he points to the fact that even if Parliament approves odius deal’ there is every sign that it will not be

[2015-07-15 05:19:54] <Emmy B> be implemented as ECB requires IMF participation but IMF will not participate without debt forgiveness…etc…

[2015-07-15 05:21:24] <Emmy B> honestly, thank goodness, he hasn’t resigned and the facts he quotes go onto Parliamentary record. #ThisIsaCoup

[2015-07-15 05:24:43] <noll> re AA, but what will play better in terms of greater role in politics? & re tweets, somewhat sim’ to Louise Mensch..

[2015-07-15 05:40:15] <noll> Robert Fisk – always well worth reading re anything Mid East

[2015-07-15 05:52:16] <noll> – Fisk misses out Kerry’s biggest 18 day motive – spectre of Saudi/ Iran & then regional nuclear arms race.

[2015-07-15 06:08:11] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’m glad that we’ve got you, Emmy, on the Greek situation. I’m learning so much about European politics. Sad to say it seems as bad as US.

[2015-07-15 06:11:08] <LibertarianLibrarian> Re AA… acting like Louise Mensch is a terrible choice. I haven’t translated the Swedish yet, what has she attacked him on? I somehow doubt

[2015-07-15 06:11:46] <LibertarianLibrarian> it’s just literary criticism. If it’s racial, religious, or political, that’s just plain foolish.

[2015-07-15 06:13:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> And considering that she fabricated evidence and clearly lied, she’d even more stupid to try to get more publicity or money. I still suspect

[2015-07-15 06:15:48] <LibertarianLibrarian> she’s an attention-seeker.

[2015-07-15 06:34:17] <LibertarianLibrarian> Oh, that is awful. So painful for the family.

[2015-07-15 07:06:56] <noll> “Tsipras must keep number of rebels to fewer than 40 to pass vote”

[2015-07-15 07:18:43] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-15 07:20:11] <noll> follow that tweet back to Rand Paul bit.

[2015-07-15 08:03:17] <noll> “zero-day vulnerabilities are found on Flash with such regularity they almost feel like a feature”

[2015-07-15 09:57:14] <Emmy B> First Look is donating to Chelsea Manning’s Defence Fund

[2015-07-15 12:05:01] <Emmy B>

[2015-07-15 12:06:38] <Emmy B> With English simultaneous translation , the Greek Parliament begins procedure

[2015-07-15 12:07:38] <Emmy B> Alternative

[2015-07-15 12:08:50] <Emmy B> it’s a fast track debate

[2015-07-15 12:21:36] <noll> thanks for links Em, what’s your impression on whether it’ll pass?

[2015-07-15 12:33:52] <Emmy B> Every reporter says it will pass.

[2015-07-15 12:35:30] <Emmy B> estimation about 40 gov MPs with vote no but the whole opposition other than Golden Dawn will vote yes

[2015-07-15 17:42:11] <noll> an evening of capitulation. history repeats.

[2015-07-15 21:16:01] <M> Claes Borgström trying to take control of Swedish press/opinion as statute of limitations comes up:

[2015-07-16 01:30:09] <Emmy B> It would be such a relief for AA not to have to be questioned about the false submission to the police. It is not fair.

[2015-07-16 03:30:51] <noll> blocked: @gerge42

[2015-07-16 06:27:48] <LibertarianLibrarian> Borgstrom hasn’t got a leg to stand on and he knows it, he’s blowing hot air again. Emmy’s right, the last thing AA wants is to be forced

[2015-07-16 06:28:05] <LibertarianLibrarian> to actually go to court and be questioned about her behavior and actions.

[2015-07-16 06:29:16] <LibertarianLibrarian> Has Suzanne gone overboard again, HP?

[2015-07-16 06:38:52] <noll> Jen, she’s feeding MGT, incl. the ‘HP run by JA’ line, & sending time wasting DMs.

[2015-07-16 06:43:10] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s such a shame. As we’ve already proved, ignoring them other than periodic warnings (and off-twitter court suits) is the best approach.

[2015-07-16 06:59:20] <noll> Jen, agree. / “oh Gott” Merkel’s PR week implosion continues:

[2015-07-16 07:21:15] <LibertarianLibrarian> Merkel’s self-destructing.

[2015-07-16 08:38:48] <Emmy B> To WiseUps, just published a short post on the blog. Hope ok, let me know if you spot any errors – Thanks 🙂

[2015-07-16 08:56:30] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-07-16 10:50:46] <M> Ny told AFP that prosecution is waiting on permission from Ecuador

[2015-07-16 11:10:07] <Emmy B> Press Release to AP and UK Press Association is quite effective for counter argument dissemination.

[2015-07-16 11:20:24] <WISE Up Action> Will look at it, Em x

[2015-07-16 12:36:18] <Emmy B> Thank you for the improvements <3 love them!

[2015-07-16 14:01:12] <noll> Home Office didn’t include text of section 23 when denying to reveal Swe MLA for surveillance. appearances etc.

[2015-07-16 14:04:52] <noll> – of note, HO happily answered FOI re number of interviews, & here cites “identification of individual MLA requests”, so – there’s only one?

[2015-07-16 14:07:54] <noll> re ‘prosecution is waiting on permission’ it should be re-clarified, esp. if Ny still intent on running clock down.

[2015-07-16 22:21:44] <M> Sysadmin finding malware in GI Files attachments

[2015-07-16 23:21:53] <Emmy B> Cherie Blair quoted WikiLeaks cables in the defence of Rwanda secret services chief was mentioned yesterday at BBC Radio 4 News, can’t find

[2015-07-16 23:22:28] <Emmy B> the resource yet but it relates to this story:

[2015-07-17 04:21:50] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-17 05:06:06] <noll> Wls, that’s Mac + *all recent versions of win:

[2015-07-17 05:09:12] <noll>

[2015-07-17 05:16:44] <noll> Wls, 403 Forbidden on that email

[2015-07-17 05:21:39] <noll> email cache:

[2015-07-17 05:24:30] <noll> email chain:

[2015-07-17 05:30:12] <noll> email back up.

[2015-07-17 05:31:59] <noll> was also 403 on Tor, was that a DDoS?

[2015-07-17 05:59:42] <WikiLeaks> Strange. May have been DDoS protection activated, or one of our servers is behaving strangely.

[2015-07-17 06:00:10] <WikiLeaks> We have quite a lot of severs in different countries and there’s a random chance of getting one or another.

[2015-07-17 07:44:03] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-07-17 07:46:26] <Emmy B> Over summer I will make a list of GIFiles published at the FakeWLF, it might be of assistance in the future. e.g.:

[2015-07-17 07:57:25] <Emmy B> They have referred to these links to give themselves legitimacy.

[2015-07-17 07:58:04] <Emmy B> Also, it would be helping their Google Page ranking and why help them?

[2015-07-17 08:44:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> Smart idea, Emmy.

[2015-07-17 10:19:06] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet]

[2015-07-17 10:23:01] <Emmy B> Another one bites the dust.

[2015-07-17 10:24:44] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-07-17 10:32:00] <WISE Up Action> Check Ball link: using Wls releases on his CV of course.

[2015-07-17 10:40:51] <Emmy B> Janine Gibson is also moving to BuzzFeed UK so they are both been given ze boot! as soon as A Rusbridger moved on. The new Guardian editor

[2015-07-17 10:41:38] <Emmy B> is ‘dusting off the shelves’, let’s see what direction will the paper take.

[2015-07-17 10:42:48] <Emmy B> who’ll be next? is Nick Davies nearing retirement yet?

[2015-07-17 10:43:18] <Emmy B> thanks for sharing !

[2015-07-17 14:28:59] <noll> [Media-image] “I think this says it all.”

[2015-07-17 14:52:12] <noll> can’t help but wonder if recent Wls releases via smaller local outlets have caused rethink at cash strapped Guardian.

[2015-07-17 15:52:39] <LibertarianLibrarian> I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right HP, also I think their reputation has suffered a lot recently.

[2015-07-18 02:46:48] <noll> ‘The Sun has sunk to a new low’ according to the fascists at the Daily Mail.

[2015-07-18 03:25:40] <noll> “..but they’re still waiting for permission from Ecuador.”

[2015-07-18 03:29:08] <noll> – at least be aware of the stage. as mentioned, this will be excuse PRed to world, if it’s bs, then Ecu/ JA legal, need to be ahead of that.

[2015-07-18 04:36:05] <noll> huge story.. haven’t seen reported in msm as yet.

[2015-07-18 04:44:01] <noll>

[2015-07-18 06:13:13] <noll>

[2015-07-18 08:47:54] <M> German officials use disposable phones over eavesdropping fears

[2015-07-18 09:10:54] <Emmy B> sounds a good idea

[2015-07-19 06:34:35] <WISE Up Action> Babar Ahmad, who w Talha Ahsan another victim of outrageous UK/US extradition before it was changed,back home.Both had to take plea deal ofc

[2015-07-19 06:43:08] <WISE Up Action> Both had to take plea deal in US ofc, so, unfortunately ‘evidence’ never tested in court, but at sentencing hearing judge made remarkably

[2015-07-19 06:45:20] <WISE Up Action> enlightened comments which could be applied to other similar prosecutions. Article fr SACC on their case well worth reading for an overview

[2015-07-19 06:47:09] <WISE Up Action> (2014 – just after sentencing) & has court docs at the end

[2015-07-19 06:53:29] <WISE Up Action> Despite Judge saying: “This is a good person who does not and will not seek in the future to harm other people”, SundaySlime scaremongering

[2015-07-19 06:56:22] <WISE Up Action> ‘Terrorist slips back into Britain..’ – ugh

[2015-07-19 06:57:32] <WISE Up Action> solidarity (demos etc) against the UK/US extradition treaty that we were opposing bc of JA.

[2015-07-19 08:18:04] <WISE Up Action>

[2015-07-19 08:45:30] <noll> that is concerning/ recent videos taking a more ‘religious’ tone:

[2015-07-19 08:58:48] <WISE Up Action> That tweet’s the first I’ve noticed overtly ‘hostile’ to WL,but it still seems fairly sad & best left alone.Vids quite illuminating,cheers H

[2015-07-19 09:09:02] <noll> thanks Action, yes, first we’ve seen as well, v. worrying considering her m. health.

[2015-07-19 11:11:03] <Emmy B> thank goodness, she has moved on….

[2015-07-19 11:11:45] <Emmy B> ‘Christine Sands’ a very difficult individual to deal with

[2015-07-19 11:25:37] <noll> – let’s hope she’s in the process of moving on & not the other thing.

[2015-07-19 12:02:37] <noll>

[2015-07-19 12:26:33] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-19 12:44:49] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-07-19 15:59:44] <noll> HT sales.. off to meet “mr. Sibor (big boss)” w/ “forbidden applications” in Prague

[2015-07-20 06:39:45] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-20 07:05:15] <noll> great piece by Ahmed:

[2015-07-20 10:47:00] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-07-20 10:49:53] <M> I love how different WL releases can be linked together.

[2015-07-20 10:56:35] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-07-20 12:50:31] <noll> “DCM pointed out that our intention was not to threaten Germany” 8 months later:

[2015-07-20 13:11:37] <Emmy B> [Tweet] How can one check whether a document is genuine?

[2015-07-20 13:13:10] <Emmy B> SG/SD/WASHDC-12/S26-D48/JULE74

[2015-07-20 13:13:49] <WikiLeaks> Which doc?

[2015-07-20 13:14:37] <Emmy B> It is not a WL doc

[2015-07-20 13:15:06] <Emmy B> Sorry this is a general question.

[2015-07-20 14:25:40] <M> Pretty interesting: @ggreenwald on why Snowden has more public support than Manning

[2015-07-20 15:11:37] <noll>

[2015-07-20 16:09:59] <WISE Up Action> Interesting….thanks H

[2015-07-21 07:20:17] <M> Statement from Embassy of Ecuador in Sweden re ongoing communication between the two countries re JA case

[2015-07-21 07:51:31] <Emmy B> This is excellent handling and it would be wonderful if it is continued. Ny will otherwise spin with more freedom.

[2015-07-21 07:51:35] <Emmy B> At least now a framework is defined.

[2015-07-21 07:51:47] <Emmy B> Thank you for sharing <3

[2015-07-21 14:25:13] <Emmy B>

[2015-07-22 04:34:06] <noll> can we remind ppl to clean URL tails, esp. if from Fwlf.

[2015-07-22 05:23:38] <Emmy B> What do you mean ‘ URL tails, esp. if from Fwlf.’

[2015-07-22 05:41:36] <noll> mean the code tagged onto end of URLs that allows limited visitor tracking.

[2015-07-22 05:49:08] <Emmy B> example please? because I don’t understand, how do we pick up such code and where do we have it? when we share a link in our tweets?

[2015-07-22 05:50:07] <Emmy B> when I press the share button in a newspaper article do I pick up such code?

[2015-07-22 05:52:17] <Bean> [Tweet] hi WL – any chance of a tweet or a RT for the funky new flash drives at the shop?

[2015-07-22 05:58:03] <noll>

[2015-07-22 06:00:00] <noll> // HO have stated that they need another 20 days to consider how to answer FOI re JA assassination plots.

[2015-07-22 06:01:58] <noll> Em, it the add-on at the end. ie. in this case:

[2015-07-22 06:05:46] <Emmy B> omg shocking FOI reply

[2015-07-22 06:07:32] <Emmy B> I don’t always see the URLs i share as I just press the twitter share button. I no longer share live links from fwlf only archived ones.

[2015-07-22 06:09:17] <noll> yes, & it’s similar to some previous FOIs, in that they really didn’t need to include Section 27(4) in the denial.

[2015-07-22 06:17:49] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s very useful to know re URLs. I’ll have to watch for it.

[2015-07-22 06:18:52] <LibertarianLibrarian> The Ardin story just keeps getting worse for her. Talk about a narcissist with ego problems. Wow.

[2015-07-22 06:19:25] <LibertarianLibrarian> Bet Ny would dearly love to keep her off a witness stand.

[2015-07-22 06:21:01] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet] Ha, very good

[2015-07-22 06:27:36] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-07-22 08:24:26] <M> [Tweet] Great news

[2015-07-22 09:09:21] <Emmy B> Good luck to him!

[2015-07-22 09:52:08] <noll> amusing – establishment’s Corbyn horror:

[2015-07-22 10:03:48] <WISE Up Action> Haha

‘Jeremy Corbyn is ‘the Syriza of Britain’, Labour MP Tristram Hunt warns’

[2015-07-22 10:09:50] <WISE Up Action>

[2015-07-22 10:21:29] <noll>

[2015-07-22 10:55:39] <Emmy B> good one!

[2015-07-22 12:02:17] <Emmy B> Amusing:

[2015-07-22 12:03:38] <Emmy B> The panhellenic association of Greek taxi drivers website publishes the WikiLeaks story of NSA Garman interceptions! 🙂

[2015-07-22 13:45:05] <M> [Tweet] Very neat.

[2015-07-22 13:48:58] <Emmy B> Love it!

[2015-07-23 01:08:31] <Emmy B> yes

[2015-07-23 06:32:08] <LibertarianLibrarian> Good grief!

[2015-07-23 06:32:21] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s just sick.

[2015-07-23 11:14:48] <Emmy B> Finally two politicians we can be proud for:

[2015-07-23 11:21:02] <M> Guardian: “sexual molestation & rape charges”. Though it is Esther Addley iirc creator of “anti-privacy” title for WL

[2015-07-23 11:25:55] <M> Correct in article body, though. And there’s a lot of interesting information.

[2015-07-23 11:27:54] <M> Sweden says it will interpret Ecuador’s requested protocols (i.e. presence of diplomatic staff) as a refusal to grant access to Assange.

[2015-07-23 11:28:31] <M> Also JA may be allowed further appeal through Swedish courts if the failure to question continues.

[2015-07-23 11:30:19] <M> Sweden says it will interpret Ecuador’s request for pre-interview agreement between Ecuador/Sweden as a refusal to grant access to Assange.

[2015-07-23 11:30:21] <M> Also JA may be allowed further appeal through Swedish courts if the failure to question continues.

[2015-07-23 11:43:36] <LibertarianLibrarian> Wow, Ny’s seeking any possible excuse, however absurd, to avoid the interview. Wonder if her failure will bring up possibility of SC revisit

[2015-07-23 11:44:39] <LibertarianLibrarian> How can a request for pre-interview agreement be grounds for refusal?

[2015-07-23 11:45:15] <LibertarianLibrarian> Do these people even think about how ridiculous this makes them look?

[2015-07-23 11:46:02] <LibertarianLibrarian> But it wouldn’t be bad for PES & TO to get back into court; maybe finally force release of evidence.

[2015-07-23 11:46:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> But wow, how is Ny not fired by now?

[2015-07-23 12:43:38] <noll>

[2015-07-23 12:45:32] <noll> UK guidelines show Ny seems to have things backwards – as always – the question is not who can attend from host state, but can she.

[2015-07-23 13:06:28] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s just arrogance, she doesn’t like having to get permission even from a sovereign nation or be seen doing so.

[2015-07-23 13:08:55] <WISE Up Action> More ‘prestige’ issues?

[2015-07-23 13:29:57] <noll> jtlyk our HO FOI re DNA requests has been denied, we’re now sending it to National Crime Agency.

[2015-07-23 13:32:08] <noll> no reply yet re ‘EAW and detainment without charge’ question, & as mentioned HO has requested more time to answer FOI re JA assassination.

[2015-07-23 15:55:24] <WISE Up Action> Thanks for doing FOIs, H xx

[2015-07-23 21:14:40] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-07-23 21:14:54] <M> Re “charges”

[2015-07-24 00:11:35] <Emmy B> I wonder what they print on broadsheet edition.

[2015-07-24 01:12:46] <Emmy B> Finally mass spying by GCHQ enters the mainstream press

[2015-07-24 01:17:26] <WISE Up Action> M – wow, a first? Interesting to see how that pans out re Addley et al pulling that stroke again.

[2015-07-24 03:30:05] <noll> National Crime Agency reply “we will not respond to specific requests”.

[2015-07-24 05:01:31] <Emmy B> Some Updates on the last blog post:

[2015-07-24 05:02:14] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-24 05:02:27] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-24 05:04:08] <noll> Wolf on Comey: “He’s doing his best – like all the men & women who work at the FBI – to Keep All Of Us Safe™

[2015-07-24 05:19:08] <WISE Up Action> Thank you Emmy, D x

[2015-07-24 05:24:04] <Emmy B> I am off to Gr on Sun for the rest of the summer so busy times ahead. A note needs to go up about a vigil call out for the 16th of Aug can

[2015-07-24 05:25:20] <Emmy B> someone put it up please? There is a new banner *thank you Ecuador* waiting to be aired specially on the day. 🙂

[2015-07-24 05:38:43] <WISE Up Action> Ok Emmy, will do. Thanks for these updates – potentially damaging for Ny

[2015-07-24 05:42:00] <noll> surveillance society: email your local MP re facking or whatever? – don’t. meet them in comms/ electronics free zone:

[2015-07-24 06:00:38] <LibertarianLibrarian> Get me the info on Aug 16 & I’ll send it out regularly. I do have some UK & Europe followers.

[2015-07-24 06:01:09] <LibertarianLibrarian> Have a good visit to Greece. Hope your family is doing OK there.

[2015-07-24 06:02:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’m off to a short family reunion in Vermont & likely a political arg or two. My Uncle’s an ex-WaPo reporter who tends to buy the DC line.

[2015-07-24 06:03:23] <Emmy B> Thank you everyone! I will share coastal pictures indulgently hopefully bringing back some sunshine 🙂 We keep going…. 🙂

[2015-07-24 06:03:37] <LibertarianLibrarian> My Dad & I are surprisingly getting closer even tho he’s a Green & I’m a Libertarian.

[2015-07-24 06:03:55] <Emmy B> Enjoy the break Jenny <3

[2015-07-24 06:04:36] <LibertarianLibrarian> Thanks, you too! Greece is far lovelier, I’m sure though the mountains are nice.

[2015-07-24 06:08:03] <noll> Em, was “Assange” in the title of any of your emails of LAM & MPs?

[2015-07-24 06:24:29] <Emmy B> No e-mails to CL contained “Sarah Harrison” to JJ yes it would be but I wrote e-mail via ‘write to them’ I believe once, the rest letters

[2015-07-24 06:25:20] <Emmy B> would be printed at my printer and posted via conventional means.

[2015-07-24 06:25:52] <Emmy B> Should I FOI?

[2015-07-24 06:45:04] <noll> perhaps, it’s a question of what to FOI & to who, & then the fact that almost everything in this area is glomared. in light of govt lawyer’s

[2015-07-24 06:46:16] <noll> admission, it could be worth filling complaint to:

[2015-07-24 06:51:05] <noll> – has my right to private comms w/ MP been (unlawfully:

[2015-07-24 06:52:12] <noll> by “i read this”, we mean this:

[2015-07-24 08:01:41] <WISE Up Action>

[2015-07-24 08:03:46] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet]

[2015-07-24 10:40:39] <WISE Up Action> Just had a check on Eckersley. Very poor efforts these days. Is Susanne actually crushing her spirit?!

[2015-07-24 10:41:41] <WISE Up Action> Just had a check on Eckersley. Very poor efforts these days. Is Susanne actually crushing her spirit?!

[2015-07-24 13:09:11] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-24 13:09:23] <noll> finally..

[2015-07-24 13:41:01] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-07-24 13:48:58] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-07-24 14:33:52] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-07-24 14:34:43] <Emmy B> Thank you SomersetBean 🙂 80 x 130 our new vigil poster for the 16th of Aug 🙂

[2015-07-24 14:38:40] <Bean> Lovely! A pleasure 🙂

[2015-07-24 14:53:14] <Emmy B> Tomorrow 5 years since Afghanistan War Logs

[2015-07-24 15:33:25] <noll>

[2015-07-24 20:07:42] <noll> if you want to know just how pathetic UK FIO is, just look at Cheney lounging & yawning his way through 9/11:

[2015-07-24 23:54:21] <M> Jerky article from Aftonbladet, but ends with: “The prosecutor should have stopped the proceedings five years ago.”

[2015-07-25 00:17:43] <Emmy B> Thank you for sharing M this is good!

[2015-07-25 00:18:43] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-07-25 00:20:00] <Emmy B> In the AFP article shared by WL about Turkey striking PKK and ISIS at the same time, there is the concluding sentence above.

[2015-07-25 00:22:01] <Emmy B> Greek National security blog On Alert reported yesterday that US F16 were stopping on Crete on their way to Icirlik. I am not an expert but

[2015-07-25 00:23:13] <Emmy B> this is curious as there is no distance at all between Crete and Incirilik, why would they need to stop off at Crete for e.g. refuelling.

[2015-07-25 00:24:33] <Emmy B> Also be aware the current UN supervised ‘negotiations’ between Turkish and Greek Cypriots to legalise the 1974 Turkish invasion by de facto

[2015-07-25 00:27:23] <Emmy B> recognition of bi community bi zonal ‘solution’.

[2015-07-25 00:28:52] <Emmy B> US has not only accepted tacitly the bombing of Northern Iraq positions it would have also strengthened Turkey’s hand in Cyprus.

[2015-07-25 00:31:53] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet]

[2015-07-25 00:35:04] <Emmy B> Again although not an expert I should mention that Ege Ordusu, the 4th Turkish Aegean Regiment (military base in Ismir) created in 1975 is

[2015-07-25 00:35:52] <Emmy B> responsible for the 40,000 Turkish troops occupying 40% of Cyprus.

[2015-07-25 00:37:53] <Emmy B> it also has a mandate to ‘protect Turkish West Coast from Greek aggression). Reminding that Turkish Parliament has declared ‘Casus Belli’

[2015-07-25 00:39:19] <Emmy B> if Greece extends it’s island’s naval territorial control from 6 miles to 12 miles which would have been its right as per international law

[2015-07-25 00:43:29] <Emmy B> Also note that Icirlik is the location from which

[2015-07-25 00:44:23] <Emmy B> considering recent operational failures by British RAF in Cyprus:

[2015-07-25 00:46:09] <Emmy B> due to being overstretched, as well as political constraints faced by Cameron’s gov in going further into the dark with the US in Syria/Iraq

[2015-07-25 00:48:49] <Emmy B> The upgrade of Incirlik will mean potentially a stronger Turkey in the regional game of power, going further than UK could ever go.

[2015-07-25 00:51:52] <Emmy B> Greece still refuses US drones being placed in Crete but for how long I wonder. Turkey has accepted them. Keep all this in mind when reading

[2015-07-25 00:54:56] <Emmy B> about political developments in Greece. The country is ruined economically but see how the proponents of 2.4% of budget allocated to defence

[2015-07-25 00:55:09] <Emmy B> will always win, no matter what.

[2015-07-25 01:53:51] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-07-25 05:39:00] <noll> fyi this is Ecuador’s ‘Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters’ policy:

[2015-07-25 05:57:06] <noll> – fact that Ecu does not have MLA w/ Sweden is almost meaningless, b/c difference b/w Ecu policy & Swe/ EU is nonexistent. it should take

[2015-07-25 05:58:56] <noll> an afternoon to make the arrangements, yet Ny is taking 15 days to make one translation. why?

[2015-07-25 06:02:01] <noll> as mentioned in several articles – one issue exists – that Ny will again have to misrepresent evidence:

[2015-07-25 06:03:43] <noll> context (unlike the EAW situ) lying & distorting will leave Ny open to all sorts of legal action. a countdown will begin on her end.

[2015-07-25 06:29:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> That may well be the reason for her endless stalling. If she has to produce real evidence, she has to know her ‘case’ collapses.

[2015-07-25 07:43:24] <noll> – according to Swedish guidelines, Ny has to follow Ecu procedures – which as seen follow international norms:

[2015-07-25 08:05:21] <noll> ie.

[2015-07-25 08:34:11] <noll>

[2015-07-25 09:25:28] <Emmy B> All good information, Thank you H!

[2015-07-25 10:34:45] <WikiLeaks> It would be helpful if people filed a great many Swedish foia’s to various swedish ministries in relation to the case handling.

[2015-07-25 10:36:00] <WikiLeaks> And do so in such a way where these ministries then have to consult with Ny’s office as to redactions, creating a paper trail.

[2015-07-25 10:36:56] <WikiLeaks> For instance, we hear that Ny has a record of a number of prosecutorial abuses and destruction of evidence.

[2015-07-25 10:38:23] <WikiLeaks> We don’t want to be presecriptive or there may be duplication.

[2015-07-25 10:39:35] <WikiLeaks> We are also worried that come the statue of limitations, Ny and the MoJ will be able to destroy material.

[2015-07-25 10:47:21] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s a great idea! Would it have to be Swedish citizens or journalists? I’m sure @ProfessorsBlogg would be willing to help.

[2015-07-25 10:48:04] <WikiLeaks> Doesn’t have to be Swedish.

[2015-07-25 10:48:33] <WikiLeaks> Or journalists.

[2015-07-25 10:48:53] <LibertarianLibrarian> If non-Swedish, non-Journalists can send these, if someone writes them up in Swedish & gives me the addresses, I’d be willing to mail them.

[2015-07-25 10:49:49] <noll> Wls, we will file that FOI & research other FOI possibilities. we intend to create a dedicated FOI page when the next HO FOI comes in.

[2015-07-25 10:50:51] <LibertarianLibrarian> Sounds good Hazel. If we set some standard text and a list of addresses, several of us can send them. Greta will, if I ask.

[2015-07-25 10:51:45] <WikiLeaks> You just need to mention ‘offentlighetsprincipen’. You can write in english.

[2015-07-25 10:52:22] <noll>

[2015-07-25 10:57:52] <noll> Jen, Wls stated “if people filed great many Swe foia” – suggest ppl create FOIs independently & not standardized to avoid duplication.

[2015-07-25 10:58:50] <WikiLeaks> Yes. People should pick their own, obscure angles.

[2015-07-25 11:00:21] <WikiLeaks> (well, not necessary obscure, but an idea that others are less likely to have)

[2015-07-25 11:01:35] <WikiLeaks> You can also ask for answers, not just for documents, i.e why was something done, or statistics.

[2015-07-25 11:01:37] <LibertarianLibrarian> OK, I’ll look at some of Hazel’s & others to get a sense of how to write one, then give it a shot. And encourage others to do same.

[2015-07-25 11:01:57] <WikiLeaks> They are required to provide answers unless they can find an excuse that such a calculation would be onerous.

[2015-07-25 12:00:41] <noll> document & information request sent to Göteborg & Stockholm re ‘Ny record’.

[2015-07-25 12:35:32] <WikiLeaks> Information as to the structure of the Swedish government is here:

[2015-07-25 12:36:58] <WikiLeaks> Swedish FOIA is the one part of Sweden that mostly lives up to the hype although it’s in rapid decay.

[2015-07-25 12:37:26] <WikiLeaks> e.g Bildt moving all his emails off to gmail.

[2015-07-25 12:42:27] <noll>

[2015-07-25 12:42:41] <noll>

[2015-07-26 11:01:46] <WikiLeaks> Sweden has arrested Snoop Dogg

[2015-07-26 11:02:03] <WikiLeaks> It’s an important moment to bring attention to the reality of Sweden.

[2015-07-26 12:13:08] <Emmy B> Did quite a lot of tweeting about it. Let us see if the matter will move from entertainment news to politics.

[2015-07-27 04:58:26] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s interesting, if slightly bizarre. I’ll read up on it. I’ve sketched out two FOI requests, just need to finish & decide where to send.

[2015-07-27 05:00:13] <LibertarianLibrarian> This is one to follow up on.

[2015-07-27 09:11:32] <Emmy B> Well done Jenny! In a couple of days I will settle a bit in my holiday surroundings and then can take a look at what I might be able to do.

[2015-07-27 09:11:44] <Emmy B> keep us informed please xxx

[2015-07-27 10:01:30] <noll> if Swe FOI avoidance methods are different & faster to UK’s, it’s ends are still the same.

[2015-07-27 10:52:59] <noll>

[2015-07-27 11:21:22] <Emmy B> May I leave my imagination completely free and suggest that labour knows that GCHQ & Cameron knows every skeleton in the cupboard &

[2015-07-27 11:22:52] <Emmy B> are simply scared ? see the recent scoops of rightwing press regarding Lord so and so. We might laugh at his predicament and be disgusted at

[2015-07-27 11:23:56] <Emmy B> his hypocrisy but we now know GCHQ would know their secrets going back decades and gov will have access, neither will they be afraid to use

[2015-07-27 11:25:26] <Emmy B> the info to their advantage. Labour is now cut off from access as they are no longer government. Why is it SNP that has risen to be the

[2015-07-27 11:26:48] <Emmy B> opposition? They are new in Westminster and therefore, it might be a while before their GCHQ files all get up to date and through

[2015-07-27 11:26:52] <Emmy B> the bureaucracy

[2015-07-27 11:28:05] <Emmy B> If there was ever a FOI for such matters I would try to map out the leak channels between gov/GCHQ/Media, it might be informal but there

[2015-07-27 11:28:49] <Emmy B> might be electronic in nature and considering that they are currently exempt form FOI, they might be sloppy.

[2015-07-27 11:29:31] <Emmy B> There… 🙂 imagination back in the box 🙂

[2015-07-27 11:31:03] <Emmy B> One more thing… before Snowden, political elit would have some idea about being spied on by GCHQ and the previous equivalent, but now the

[2015-07-27 11:32:41] <Emmy B> extent of the surveillance revealed by Snowden is simply horrifying. Also, now who ever uses the system, knows that evryone knows, sees that

[2015-07-27 11:33:36] <Emmy B> no one acts to stop the spying and is emboldened to use the information in political blackmail more often. Previously, they would always

[2015-07-27 11:35:19] <Emmy B> strive to be moderate so as not to reveal the extent of the spying. Prepare for more scandals I say.

[2015-07-27 11:35:41] <Emmy B> *end of rant* 🙂

[2015-07-27 13:13:48] <Emmy B> But the power of Blackmail is not in exposure but in the threat of exposure, so they throw the expendable out in the most humiliating way

[2015-07-27 13:15:22] <Emmy B> possibly by parallel construction (why on earth would the sex workers entrap him like this? this is very rare) to show the real target of

[2015-07-27 13:16:29] <Emmy B> what they will do to them. But with regards to the article you shared about passivity…it is remarkable the number of MPs who toed the

[2015-07-27 13:16:33] <Emmy B> line and abstained.

[2015-07-27 14:11:42] <WikiLeaks> Sewel punked as a way for Murdoch, cops and someone else to demonstrate their power over legislative positions.

[2015-07-27 14:13:50] <WikiLeaks> It’s unclear whether he offended someone or whether he was just a useful bit of meat to very publicly make a burger from.

[2015-07-27 14:16:31] <WikiLeaks> Either way, the legislative class is smelling the roast and wondering who’s next and taking lessons on who not to offend.

[2015-07-27 14:36:40] <noll> agree. / on a lighter/ less lighter note:

[2015-07-28 17:29:30] <M> Pretty good article doing a quick overview of US war on hacktivists/whistleblowers, threat of extradition to US etc.

[2015-07-28 23:20:10] <Emmy B> off topic, snipets from Greece: my relations left their cherry and black cherry crop rot on the trees, local Merchants unable to trade due

[2015-07-28 23:20:48] <Emmy B> to capital controls imposed a week before referendum.

[2015-07-28 23:23:00] <Emmy B> they were not the only one’s to do so, farming production very much relies on local merchants providing contracts upon which hands are hired

[2015-07-28 23:24:32] <Emmy B> to collect crops, store it till merchants takes it over. Without contracts harvesting simply stalled & as goods r perishable, was abandoned.

[2015-07-28 23:26:32] <Emmy B> Shocking waste! that’s how food prices shoot up, when markets fail. Capital controls have had tremendous damaging effect in real economy.

[2015-07-28 23:27:32] <Emmy B> there are simply no alternative systems for immediate replacement of the established systems of transactions and trade fails spectacularly.

[2015-07-28 23:29:05] <Emmy B> Luckily, Greek farming is not commodity based but if such failures like the one I described happen across crops, what was a predominantly

[2015-07-28 23:30:49] <Emmy B> urban financial crisis will now be spreading deeply into the country-side. Feeding back into the cities with high prices. Unbelievable!.

[2015-07-29 03:47:45] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-07-29 05:35:44] <noll>

[2015-07-29 07:18:51] <M> Borgström responds to Staffan Heimerson article from last week

[2015-07-29 07:24:19] <M> Guardian throws JA in article about Donald Trump/marital rape, readers notice.

[2015-07-29 07:24:22] <M>

[2015-07-29 09:48:44] <LibertarianLibrarian> Some points they make are good ones. Trump is a complete embarrassment for my country. But it’s typical hysteria & hate to throw JA in.

[2015-07-29 09:49:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> Sorry I’ve been absent. Teaching a 2-week summer grad school course. Should be more free after Aug 7th.

[2015-07-29 09:50:37] <LibertarianLibrarian> But I did just get an article published

[2015-07-29 09:51:28] <LibertarianLibrarian> Now back to creating lectures on how to critically appraise a clinical therapeutic or diagnostic trial. *sigh*

[2015-07-29 12:12:51] <M> [Tweet] Great!

[2015-07-30 07:13:31] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-07-30 08:53:16] <Emmy B> Terrible!

[2015-07-31 08:48:22] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-07-31 09:31:58] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-08-01 06:48:33] <noll> as expected from outset, this:

[2015-08-01 08:28:41] <noll> also, see:

[2015-08-01 12:28:21] <Emmy B> Visa Mastercard win over WL?

[2015-08-01 12:30:48] <Emmy B> First WL Files book review I came across (1 error, Wikipedia instead of WL PLusD) :

[2015-08-01 16:00:56] <M> Japan to protest if U.S. spying confirmed: media

[2015-08-01 16:01:23] <M> Japanese gov source, “If this is true, it is extremely regrettable. We need to lodge a protest. But the Japanese gov first must verify it.”

[2015-08-01 16:01:38] <M> U.S. State Department deputy spokesperson Mark Toner: “We do not think Japan will take this as a problem.”

[2015-08-01 23:54:47] <Emmy B> The arrogance!

[2015-08-02 09:51:06] <Emmy B> Thank you h for all your contributions, looking forward to your flagging things off, we’ll keep you posted of any developments 🙂

[2015-08-02 14:32:04] <M> WaPo: America classifies way too much information

[2015-08-02 14:34:08] <Emmy B> blinkers and earplugs next?

[2015-08-02 15:11:57] <Emmy B> Interesting article re Assange case in German here translated

[2015-08-03 05:39:34] <Emmy B> Really good article in Washington Post about academics using WL cables

[2015-08-03 10:03:53] <LibertarianLibrarian> We’ll miss you, Hazel, but will keep eyes open for the things you flag.

[2015-08-04 10:07:37] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-08-05 07:01:21] <M> English translation of TO speaking about JA case on SVT:

[2015-08-05 08:09:34] <Emmy B> Wonderful! Thank you for sharing M 🙂

[2015-08-05 11:50:31] <noll>

[2015-08-05 12:01:02] <noll> thanks Em. FOIs sent to Swe Justice Ministry were all blocked w/ bizarre ‘none of our business, pls redirect question to prosecutor’ excuse.

[2015-08-05 12:02:41] <noll> / obviously we’re going to redirect them.

[2015-08-05 12:06:20] <WikiLeaks> Geat FOI, HP.

[2015-08-05 13:36:03] <Emmy B> Hey just realised HP=Houses of Parliament and my favourite sauce 🙂

[2015-08-05 14:20:12] <Emmy B> He should have uploaded to WL instead of 4chan:

[2015-08-06 02:04:08] <Emmy B> Aidan’s show goes to Edinburg, dispatched 2500 flyers ‘5 Ways to Help WikiLeaks & Julian Assange’ for distribution at his shows as per his

[2015-08-06 02:04:17] <Emmy B> [Tweet] request

[2015-08-06 02:05:13] <Emmy B> He si very keen to support and says will issue DVD in Sep with the show, linking to WikiLeaks/donate page.

[2015-08-06 02:06:32] <Emmy B> Thanking Somerset Bean for the flyer design – as always 🙂

[2015-08-06 03:46:44] <Bean> A pleasure – thx. Have a couple of social media images ready for the 16th—will set them up as print ready files over next few days & send 🙂

[2015-08-06 03:49:05] <Emmy B> Thank you vm, the sooner the better pls as I will ask printer to print and dispatch to vigil ppl as I am in Greece, I cannot do it myself x

[2015-08-06 03:52:44] <Bean> right-o 🙂

[2015-08-06 10:16:05] <WISE Up Action> Hi all, short post re vigil on the 16th.

[2015-08-06 10:32:42] <Emmy B> Excellent! Thank you very much Dave x I have enlarged the images and replace one (of the charges) with another. Please tweet and we take it

[2015-08-06 10:33:56] <Emmy B> from there 🙂 Many ppl are on holidays (like myself) and we don’t give the remainder much notice but there will be a presence to mark event

[2015-08-06 10:34:11] <Emmy B> Thank you again for stepping up xxx 🙂

[2015-08-06 10:59:32] <M> Interesting transcript of Ny press conference after court ruling. Ny cites “complexity of process” as reason for not questioning in UK.

[2015-08-06 10:59:37] <M>

[2015-08-06 11:01:32] <M> Ny also says she has no knowledge of a US investigation taking place. Most of it is just avoidance/non-answers.

[2015-08-06 14:43:09] <LibertarianLibrarian> Avoidance seems to be her strategy from day one. It’s clear that this was a political play not a legal one. Her job has been to stall.

[2015-08-06 19:04:03] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-08-06 19:04:12] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-08-06 22:23:36] <M> Swedish Justice Department saying it would be illegal to accept Ecuador’s conditions for questioning.

[2015-08-06 22:24:00] <M> Sweden refuses to recognize Assange’s asylum status.

[2015-08-06 23:28:40] <Emmy B> They are determined not to question him under any circumstances which is their consistent strategy from the very beginning.

[2015-08-07 08:45:53] <M> Reuters article on JA. Seems Sweden won’t recognize JA asylum has turned into Sweden won’t give JA asylum.

[2015-08-07 10:43:44] <noll>

[2015-08-07 11:21:32] <noll>

[2015-08-07 11:51:30] <noll>

[2015-08-07 11:52:56] <noll> / all Swe needs in order to transfer asylum status, is to ask Ecu for travel documents for JA.

[2015-08-08 09:27:08] <M> Ecuador Ambassador’s response to latest Swedish claims:

[2015-08-08 09:33:53] <M> “‘It is true that the prosecutor had not yet received a permit for questioning when she went to London,’ says Cecilia Riddselius.”

[2015-08-08 15:16:34] <Bean> hey em – just checking you received email with poster files (had a few odd email happenings recently!)

[2015-08-08 23:45:13] <Emmy B> Yes thank you Bean <3 I can’t open all files for some reason but maybe it is my end. I will get in touch with printer Monday, all sent in

[2015-08-08 23:46:25] <Emmy B> good time and excellent work as usual. Loving your work!

[2015-08-09 01:42:23] <Bean> sing out if any ongoing problem with the files of course 🙂 cheers

[2015-08-09 01:49:12] <Emmy B> Tried again this morning, all well now, thank you! x

[2015-08-10 06:46:29] <noll> Reuters (Swe state) –

[2015-08-10 06:53:20] <Emmy B> Congratulations HP, finally FOI work with good facts quoted by Associated Press 🙂

[2015-08-10 07:08:09] <WISE Up Action>

[2015-08-10 07:11:19] <WISE Up Action> Congrats and thanks HP. Great work. Truth uncorked.

[2015-08-10 07:32:55] <Emmy B> Question: Is The Guardian keeping silent on the Press Association release? The Independent only paper that has re-produced it so far I think

[2015-08-10 07:34:24] <M> Maybe ask @davidgcrouch if he’s planning on writing about it.

[2015-08-10 07:35:28] <Emmy B> Good idea!

[2015-08-10 08:03:13] <WikiLeaks> What’s the independnt link?

[2015-08-10 08:04:39] <noll>

[2015-08-10 08:14:39] <noll> thanks Em, it’s the only FOI received a no-nonsense reply to.

[2015-08-10 08:15:19] <M> It’s in quite a few news sites. Australian,

[2015-08-10 08:16:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> Glad to see this picked up and shared. Congrats on the recognition of your FOI, Hazel.

[2015-08-10 08:16:39] <M> See:

[2015-08-10 08:18:56] <LibertarianLibrarian> Awesome! I’m going to tweet at some US press, not that they’ll pay attention.

[2015-08-10 08:37:03] <Emmy B> (only at half capacity due to holiday) thanks for all the links M !!! So Press Association releases work a treat as a means of disseminating

[2015-08-10 08:37:45] <Emmy B> information without relying on the Guardian etc. Wonderful news!

[2015-08-10 08:39:21] <LibertarianLibrarian> Even Reuters somewhat picked it up, with some twist, of course.

[2015-08-10 08:44:19] <M> Reuters article and/or Swedish Justice Dept tries to use “grant” vs “recognize” asylum as synonyms, which is v confusing.

[2015-08-10 08:45:15] <M> The article has Ecuador saying “we didn’t request that Sweden grant JA asylum.”

[2015-08-10 08:45:43] <M> And Sweden responding: “That’s how we interpreted it – that we have to recognize his asylum.” ???

[2015-08-10 08:50:29] <Emmy B> *sigh* a very cheap ‘lost in translation’ purposefully talking across purposes in an attempt to navigate public op. through muddled water

[2015-08-10 08:50:47] <Emmy B> somehow on ‘their’ side?

[2015-08-10 08:51:50] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, there’s a big different between ‘requesting you do something’ and ‘requesting you recognize what we already did’.

[2015-08-10 08:52:29] <noll> think that’s nonsensical – look at this. also, isn’t “specific case” offer breaching Personal Data Act (1998:204).

[2015-08-10 08:59:09] <LibertarianLibrarian> You’re emailing FOI requests to Sweden? Oh, I didn’t know you could do that! Much better than snail mail! Which I think disappears.

[2015-08-10 08:59:18] <LibertarianLibrarian> Sometimes.

[2015-08-10 11:09:32] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, the Milgrim experiment certainly teaches us, along with some similar studies, that most humans can be drawn into horrendous behavior.

[2015-08-10 11:10:24] <LibertarianLibrarian> Not that we didn’t already know that. When we studied this in ‘responsible conduct of research” classes, there were other examples too.

[2015-08-10 11:11:43] <LibertarianLibrarian> There was a high school prison one… trying to remember details. I remember photos, though. Some ‘guards’ acted like Nazis. Literally.

[2015-08-10 11:13:11] <LibertarianLibrarian> Beyond Tuskeegee, there’s also one case in a ‘mental hospital’ for children, damn, I’m losing my memory in my old age.

[2015-08-10 11:16:00] <noll> that’s Stanford exp:

[2015-08-10 11:19:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> Oh yes, that’s it. We had a guest lecture on this last week. My brain’s dead & I still have 3 student assignments overdue. Grades dropping.

[2015-08-10 11:20:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> Also, I need to refresh my HIPAA and Responsible Conduct of Research certificates soon myself, not just instruct students to do it.

[2015-08-10 11:21:44] <LibertarianLibrarian> Actually the Belmont Report ought to be read and used for more than just clinical research. Those principles are overall good practice.

[2015-08-10 11:28:51] <noll>

[2015-08-10 11:30:35] <noll> w/ Milgrim often viewed w/ re to ppl either in, or assuming positions of power, then causing others to commit immoral acts, but also applies

[2015-08-10 11:36:00] <noll> – to the “victim”, & there’s been s/thing of a taboo in addressing/ examining this aspect of passivity.

[2015-08-10 11:36:02] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, and if they’ve done ANY research involving human subjects, they should’ve been required to read and sign off on the Belmont Report.

[2015-08-10 11:36:39] <LibertarianLibrarian> Those psychologists were in violating of every principle of their discipline not to mention simple human rights and decency.

[2015-08-10 11:36:47] <LibertarianLibrarian> *violation

[2015-08-10 11:38:35] <LibertarianLibrarian> That kind of passivity in response to immoral authority is common, it’s straight-out fear at first, then I think the Stockholm Syndrome –

[2015-08-10 11:39:19] <LibertarianLibrarian> – plays a part as well as the darkness we all struggle with in ourselves. As we know, it takes a special kind of courage to put oneself on –

[2015-08-10 11:39:49] <LibertarianLibrarian> the line and accept the consequences. Or we’d have tons more Mannings & Snowdens.

[2015-08-10 11:40:46] <LibertarianLibrarian> And people don’t want to believe their sons or daughters can get caught up in that kind of behavior, thus the denial of “Collateral Murder”.

[2015-08-10 11:41:36] <LibertarianLibrarian> And what war does to formerly decent people. It violates not just those killed but those doing the killing.

[2015-08-10 12:52:25] <M> AFP report has new quotes from Swedish Justice Dept

[2015-08-10 14:40:46] <WikiLeaks> Vile.

[2015-08-10 14:47:21] <noll> “Sweden cannot recognise asylum status granted by another country, in line w/ international law” beyond parody.

[2015-08-11 06:26:51] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s insane. How can they say something like that, so obviously erroneous, and expect to look like anything but idiots?

[2015-08-11 06:49:53] <M> David Allen Green writing about JA case again, contacting Swedish Prosecutors.

[2015-08-11 06:50:46] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-08-11 06:50:56] <M> IIRC, Green stated he would never write articles about Assange case again. But apparently his seething animosity is just too overpowered.

[2015-08-11 06:56:33] <M> [Tweet] Ah, apparently he backtracked on it pretty quickly.

[2015-08-11 07:02:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> Maybe the WL supporters have started to make some impression.

[2015-08-11 07:43:01] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet] Tweeted this earlier

[2015-08-11 07:43:34] <WISE Up Action> Green is a nasty little shit

[2015-08-11 07:45:15] <WikiLeaks> He’s an insecure suck, who failed his bar exams.

[2015-08-11 07:46:03] <WikiLeaks> He also camaigned against Gary McKinnon.

[2015-08-11 08:04:51] <M> Wow. That’s sad.

[2015-08-11 08:51:33] <noll>

[2015-08-11 09:20:56] <noll> “Riddselius said on Tuesday that Sweden had not altered its understanding of Ecuador’s requests.” twilight zone..

[2015-08-11 10:41:54] <noll>

[2015-08-11 10:49:56] <noll> so.. MoJ and Prosecutor’s office all on holiday?

[2015-08-11 11:08:05] <noll> ignore last, this doesn’t show where Ny is.

[2015-08-11 11:27:55] <noll>

[2015-08-11 11:38:24] <M> Interesting. Look forward to seeing it at some point. I wonder what it makes of Borgström’s role.

[2015-08-11 11:42:58] <Emmy B> Wonderful project for TTIP WL 🙂 as I am on half capacity…oh those tiresome hours on the beach ;-p I am focusing exclusively on JA’s

[2015-08-11 11:43:58] <Emmy B> asylum, vigil, etc xxx all the best everyone, loving all the tweets!

[2015-08-11 17:23:34] <M> Someone arguing for TTIP transparency but against TTIP pledge (though not offering much in means of alternatives).

[2015-08-11 18:41:15] <noll> according to Claes Borgström, AA is “relieved” her accusations w/ not see the light of court:

[2015-08-11 22:00:49] <M> She wants him to be convicted without having to go to court. Ha!

[2015-08-12 03:09:41] <noll> seems so, guess a court isn’t the Gibney show.. / wonder if there’ll be anything Wls related on Clinton’s servers:

[2015-08-12 04:43:27] <noll>

[2015-08-12 10:50:48] <M> Decent article from The Local, especially after how bad their articles have been lately.

[2015-08-12 11:08:18] <Emmy B> Thank you for sharing!

[2015-08-12 11:23:12] <noll> most important point – which will not be televised – is that JA has already been q’ed on AA allegations, therefore charges can be brought.

[2015-08-12 11:47:34] <WikiLeaks> big media war on now

[2015-08-12 11:55:25] <Emmy B> ok

[2015-08-12 12:06:04] <Emmy B> Snowden investigation in the UK as well (SH cannot return for this reason) UK has all the tools in their disposal to detain him on their own

[2015-08-12 12:17:37] <WikiLeaks> bail case, snowden investigation are still active. plenty of excuses

[2015-08-12 12:19:58] <Emmy B> You keep strong! <3

[2015-08-12 12:29:33] <M> Manning’s currently facing “indefinite solitary confinement” over very frivolous reasons.

[2015-08-12 12:37:37] <Emmy B> no mention on the support network website

[2015-08-12 12:38:48] <M> US Justice Department declines to comment on whether charges against Assange are possible.

[2015-08-12 12:51:01] <M> Financial Times staff published anti-JA editorial.

[2015-08-12 12:54:04] <Emmy B> DAG works for FT, no?

[2015-08-12 12:55:13] <M> Yes. So def possible he was involved.

[2015-08-12 13:11:34] <WikiLeaks> See latest tweet. It’s gold.

[2015-08-12 13:23:27] <Emmy B> The more they talk the more farcical it appears, no consideration for the time resources and injustices of the last five years.

[2015-08-12 13:23:52] <Emmy B> Goodnight, almost midnight in Greece x

[2015-08-12 14:07:14] <noll>

[2015-08-12 14:28:18] <WISE Up Action> Bullshit harassment of Manning, again.

[2015-08-12 18:42:12] <noll>

[2015-08-12 18:42:31] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-08-12 18:42:41] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-08-12 18:44:06] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-08-12 18:53:08] <noll>

[2015-08-12 23:26:46] <WISE Up Action> FYI Eckersley now calling the AA case irrelevant.

[2015-08-13 03:23:17] <noll> Gavin MacFadyen’s statement seems to have gone from something amazing to the usual blocks of text..

[2015-08-13 06:01:16] <noll> and.. Jack-troll turns to threat narrative:

[2015-08-13 06:46:29] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-08-13 20:51:37] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-08-14 06:07:27] <noll>

[2015-08-14 15:53:18] <WISE Up Action> Ecuador aint takin no lessons from dummkopfs who don’t know jack about asylum! Great statement in response to FCO

[2015-08-14 22:17:46] <Emmy B> volcano erupts in Ecuador

[2015-08-15 06:43:00] <WISE Up Action> FWLF hitting new lows with attacks on Bella

[2015-08-16 10:05:27] <Bean>

[2015-08-16 10:05:54] <Bean>

[2015-08-16 10:06:32] <Bean> will try again with those!…

[2015-08-16 10:06:35] <Bean> [Tweet]

[2015-08-16 10:07:04] <Bean> [Tweet]

[2015-08-16 12:18:19] <M> Chelsea Manning denied access to legal library prior to prison hearing

[2015-08-16 12:20:16] <Emmy B> Thank you Somerset Bean! Very grateful for your work as always we’ll be able to use the graphics again and again!

[2015-08-16 12:23:35] <Emmy B> Shameless news about way Chelsea is treated, but her writing has popularised her cause and getting a lot of positive attention before hearing! a timely reminder though on how US treats their dissidents… Political Asylum now more useful than ever.

[2015-08-16 23:25:20] <M> Times has published a hit piece against JA; not sure where the original article is (paywalls, possibly this piece:

[2015-08-17 08:23:39] <M> [Tweet] Responses to Michael Cohen saying Manning didn’t expose US corruption makes for amusing reading:

[2015-08-17 12:27:20] <Emmy B> Thank you for sharing !

[2015-08-17 15:00:57] <WISE Up Action> Chelsea has filed for a formal court martial to deal w her *infractions* instead of the disciplinary board due tomorrow (at which she wld not be represented)

[2015-08-18 04:31:15] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-08-18 04:33:09] <Emmy B> and Guardian collumnist Gaby Hinsliff sings rom the same hymn song

[2015-08-18 05:12:10] <WikiLeaks> FYI the Guardian is preparing an attack via its US “feminist” columnist Jessica Valenti

[2015-08-18 05:13:48] <Emmy B> thanks for letting us know!

[2015-08-18 05:14:28] <WikiLeaks> Now only SW is left, Fritz and NY have moved to exploit the situation, with a cyber-harrassment themed counter-attack.

[2015-08-18 05:15:27] <WikiLeaks> SW has given an interview to Valenti as part of the package.

[2015-08-18 05:16:59] <WikiLeaks> SW is on record many times early in the case denying having been raped and accusing the police, so they have an up hill battle

[2015-08-18 05:18:13] <WikiLeaks> painting her as a victim. So they’re going to instead show that she’s a ‘victim’ of trolls and conspiracy theorists, e.g

[2015-08-18 05:19:24] <WikiLeaks> And posit that this is what happens to all women who are brave enough to report sex crimes.

[2015-08-18 05:20:52] <WikiLeaks> This will resonate with the many women who now work in (social) media, and who due to their public profiles, have been the target of trolls and also legitimate criticism which some reframe as harressment.

[2015-08-18 05:22:38] <Emmy B> Great shame though she has agreed to be used in this PR attack. Let’s see.

[2015-08-18 05:23:22] <WISE Up Action> The Samira Shackle not that bad – at least quotes Carey for a full para. And the other is breakfast trivia, like the Times PoS yesterday – they certainly need to come up with something with a bit more of a hook than if they want to make real waves.

However sounds like what you’re talking about could run and run…


[2015-08-18 05:26:09] <WikiLeaks> Models Valenti is likely looking to exploit are Nicklas Kristof’s “news dressed as opinion” attack on Woody Allen, Gamer Gate, and the recent campus rape debate in US, where she made the following telling claim:

[2015-08-18 05:27:35] <WikiLeaks> “Whether she is able to remain anonymous or not, and even though her story of being raped has not been disproven, the fact that Jackie is not and was not a symbol or a cause, but a person, has been lost in the rush to indict her and anyone who believes her.

I choose to believe Jackie. I lose nothing by doing so, even if I’m later proven wrong—but at least I will still be able to sleep at night for having stood by a young woman who may have been through an awful trauma. “

[2015-08-18 05:30:55] <WikiLeaks> Jackie was subsequently shown to be a fraud, but Valenti was correct to say “I lose nothing by doing so, even if I’m later proven wrong”. This total lack of accountability where there is no risk in siding with the state against the accused but there is risk in siding with the accused against the state, sums up the root cause of the problem.

[2015-08-18 05:33:06] <Emmy B> Thank you for the perspective. Food for thought certainly.

[2015-08-18 05:34:26] <Emmy B> On a practical level, if

[2015-08-18 05:34:52] <WikiLeaks> In relation to how the state has been framing accused persons, we note the following interesting spectrum of descriptions.

[2015-08-18 05:37:12] <WISE Up Action> Yeh. Can see that. And there’s no shortage of willing recipients for that emotionally fraught territory. Steered correctly it obviously has a serious chance of longevity, being picked up and passed on by others – all with slightly diff angles. Hope the writing is shit.

[2015-08-18 05:38:34] <WikiLeaks> victim, alleged victim, complainant, accuser, plaintif, applicant to imprison, imprisoner, kidnapper

[2015-08-18 05:40:22] <WikiLeaks> media rhetoric strips the applicant to imprison of agency and requisite seriousness on what is proposed

[2015-08-18 05:44:00] <WikiLeaks> The Valenti article may help in the medium term. Although it’s clearly geared to avoid discussing the merits, for obvious reasons, it may lead to a discussion on the merits, and the greater threats against JA’s family which would be very positive.

[2015-08-18 05:46:14] <Emmy B> There is something that stands out ie, if the focus is alleged online harassment of SW one could juxtapose with real life harassment against JA

[2015-08-18 05:46:26] <Emmy B> and his family.

[2015-08-18 05:46:58] <WISE Up Action> Re media framing and imbalance: Like the intense demand for anonymity for complainant (even when they’ve outed themselves!), but not for defendant.

[2015-08-18 05:47:58] <Emmy B> Before I forget, record of Christine Ann Sands UK conviction can be found here:

[2015-08-18 05:48:03] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, that’s an important point re JA & his family. Also, the damage to real victims when someone falsely accuses

[2015-08-18 05:48:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> Good too that we can point out the site is false.

[2015-08-18 05:52:22] <WikiLeaks> Check out the sort of creature Fritz is:

[2015-08-18 05:53:39] <Emmy B> a better archived link

[2015-08-18 05:54:05] <WikiLeaks> A few years ago in Sweden they intruced a measure which superficially sounds reasonable, to provide alleged victims with their own state funded lawyers.

[2015-08-18 05:54:58] <WISE Up Action> Gawdelpus! (Fritz) Says everything

[2015-08-18 05:55:53] <WikiLeaks> However, look at how it works in practice. The accused is up against a state funded team from the prosecution, another from the police, and, say in JA’s case, another two state funded lawyers for the accusers.

[2015-08-18 05:56:44] <Emmy B> I thought she was a Christian Syriac from (what is now) Turkey, Active within the Syriac Community of Sweden.

[2015-08-18 05:57:36] <Emmy B> A media Lawyer, political connections.

[2015-08-18 05:58:17] <WISE Up Action> It doesn’t take 5 seconds to see that is an obvious abuse of justice. Imagine it being a black geezer in the States and a white complainant.

[2015-08-18 05:58:55] <WikiLeaks> In terms of the process and law, there’s only three things the state funded accusers lawyers can do:

1) massage the text of the complaint to ensure it has all the necessay elements to secure a conviction. In Sweden that’s strong, since the “complaint” can always be resubmitted.

[2015-08-18 06:00:22] <WikiLeaks> 2) advice the accuser on how not to be convicted for false reporting, for example, asking for advice about an HIV test rather than making a complaint

[2015-08-18 06:01:25] <WikiLeaks> 3) public relations. For example, nearly all of Borgstrom’s bill was for speaking to journalists. Just for SW he billed for 80 hours of interviews. Normally lawyers do interviews for free, since it is free advertising for them.

[2015-08-18 06:02:24] <WikiLeaks> So the accusation industry is highly profitable. Almost nothing to do other than bill the state for advertising your own law firm.

[2015-08-18 06:03:03] <WISE Up Action> Smarmy git

[2015-08-18 06:03:22] <WikiLeaks> Fritz practice just does accusation work. Hence she’s made a lot of money and expanded rapidly. As long as she can keep cases going and keep them in the spotlight, she makes more money.

[2015-08-18 06:04:21] <Emmy B> A blatant disregard for the essence of justice

[2015-08-18 06:04:25] <WikiLeaks> She works closely with NY, who now handles all ‘rape’ cases in Sweden. Together thay tag-team the accused.

[2015-08-18 06:04:50] <WISE Up Action> She’s like a fifth rate US TV show

[2015-08-18 06:05:53] <Emmy B> Like Borgstrom and the Quick case in reverse, not really caring for their client in relation to real justice, just focusing on getting a judicial result irrespective of truth

[2015-08-18 06:06:52] <Emmy B> SW’s interests as a person have certainly not been served by such protracted case and her own lawyer campaigning against JA being interviewed in London.

[2015-08-18 06:07:44] <Emmy B> I recall the fritz campaign in early 2014 on the subject to not question JA in London

[2015-08-18 06:08:17] <Emmy B> She played politics not serving justice.

[2015-08-18 06:09:37] <Emmy B> If there is evidence of collaboration between Ny and Fritz, we already know Ny contacted Expressen for a PR stand in London, then where are the 4 pillars of democracy in Sweden?

[2015-08-18 06:09:38] <WISE Up Action> What a hideous PR firm that is – Ny + Fritz. Bet they’ve never spoken to a working class poor woman in their lives

[2015-08-18 06:10:28] <Emmy B> Are they collaborating in managing a legal outcome? they are supposed to be independent.

[2015-08-18 06:11:18] <Emmy B> Why is it that The Guardian US is leading this and not The Guardian UK?

[2015-08-18 06:11:43] <Emmy B> Do they wish to by-pass UK libel laws maybe?

[2015-08-18 06:13:54] <Emmy B> Let’s do some research….

[2015-08-18 06:16:16] <Emmy B> I cannot find

[2015-08-18 06:20:25] <Emmy B> it redirects to

[2015-08-18 06:24:18] <Emmy B> I am sorry Valenti has written as far back as Dec 2010 on the Assange case.

[2015-08-18 06:24:24] <Emmy B>

[2015-08-18 06:28:38] <WikiLeaks> Look at Borgstrom’s bill. He even billed the state for reading NY-JA lawyers correspondence. In other words NY was forwarding the defence correspondence. However the defence never received a single letter of NY-Borgstrom. They were also in lock-step about the decision to interview/not interview.

[2015-08-18 06:30:25] <WikiLeaks> So the toxic Sands has just removed

[2015-08-18 06:33:51] <Emmy B> Re Sands, the article I appended here of her conviction proves she is activein other ’causes’ in an agressive manner and has convictions. On another topic, Valenti might have scraped her twitter record regarding her Assange tweets

[2015-08-18 06:35:45] <Emmy B> I just came across only two tweets, one as a re-tweet of her previous article on Assange, the other I just archived here:

[2015-08-18 06:36:02] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-08-18 06:40:14] <Emmy B> The link quoted above is dead now but comes up in Google here:

[2015-08-18 06:40:50] <Emmy B> Mr Valenti sponsors this campaign at the time,

[2015-08-18 06:50:18] <WikiLeaks> There were more than a dozen.

[2015-08-18 06:50:27] <noll> of use:

[2015-08-18 06:52:58] <Emmy B> [Tweet] yes i found some more: here she jumps to conclusions about JA’s position on abortion

[2015-08-18 06:53:12] <WikiLeaks> We have more detail. The article is about 2k words. It is straight prosecution/fritz line. It goes through a chronology at the beginning and looks to set the scene to counter-act SW’s statements, for example, saying how she went to hospital to get a “rape kit” before going to police.

[2015-08-18 06:55:31] <Emmy B> Does it mention the fact her case was dismissed outright from the stockholm prosecutor?

[2015-08-18 06:55:51] <Emmy B> as a ‘non case’

[2015-08-18 06:56:00] <noll> on the motives behind JV’s campus piece:

[2015-08-18 06:56:19] <WikiLeaks> No. Nothing like that is mentioned. No positive elements at all.

[2015-08-18 06:56:49] <WikiLeaks> “rape kit” seems to have just been an STDtest re-named.

[2015-08-18 06:58:49] <WikiLeaks> Yes, we believe Guardian will likely publish via US to avoid libel laws. Public figures are unable to sue for libel unless malice can be proved.

[2015-08-18 06:59:10] <M> Helen Lewis had a piece a few days ago that had a similar taste – it went off on how the women have been called sluts, liars, etc, which is damaging, but made no comment as to how damaging the label rapist is on someone who has not been convicted. Luckily, it didn’t seem to gain much traction and is now stuck behind a paywall.

[2015-08-18 06:59:45] <WikiLeaks> do you have a copy of the Lewis article?

[2015-08-18 07:01:26] <M> I’ll have to search for one. Didn’t expect it to go under paywall.

[2015-08-18 07:03:39] <WikiLeaks> One positive is that we hear that there is debate within the Guardian, and there is a significant faction that are very suspicious about the whole case and how they’re being instrumentalized.

[2015-08-18 07:05:58] <WISE Up Action> Oh that is EXCELLENT news

[2015-08-18 07:07:30] <Emmy B> I found the link on Valenti tweets about ‘let’s talk about it’ she has taken it down from her blog I think as current URL cannot be found, but in the wayback machine it is all there: she is sponsoring the #letstalkaboutit anti-Assange campaign and encourages others to participate:

[2015-08-18 07:07:37] <Emmy B>

[2015-08-18 07:07:51] <WISE Up Action> People should be enraged at being taken for such tools

[2015-08-18 07:08:14] <Emmy B> the not found link here:

[2015-08-18 07:28:41] <Emmy B> three more Valenti articles from her blog on Assange have been deleted but here they are, maybe there is something in the comments she did not want kept?

[2015-08-18 07:28:46] <Emmy B>

[2015-08-18 07:31:23] <Emmy B> interestingly, one of her posts has been translated into Swedish (?) here:

[2015-08-18 07:32:50] <Emmy B> I will keep an eye!

[2015-08-18 07:44:49] <WikiLeaks> Any idea as to when they were deleted?

[2015-08-18 07:45:09] <noll> here’s two main pieces:

[2015-08-18 07:45:10] <WikiLeaks> She’s likely preparing shop for her campaign.

[2015-08-18 07:55:29] <noll>

[2015-08-18 07:55:44] <noll> those are the three missing articles.

[2015-08-18 07:58:26] <noll> according to wayback saves – they were deleted from blog before 15 Oct 2013.

[2015-08-18 12:45:48] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet]

[2015-08-18 13:13:04] <Emmy B> 1. AOL News at the center of “sex by surprise” lie in Assange’s rape case – Last Live URL Captured 29.12.2012

[2015-08-18 13:18:08] <Emmy B> 2. What the Assange case reveals about rape in America – Last Live Capture 25 January 2012

[2015-08-18 13:29:22] <Emmy B> 3. Naomi Wolf really needs to read the internet, Last Live URL Capture 26 August 2013

[2015-08-18 13:41:13] <Emmy B> thank you, just looking at jezebel one 🙂

[2015-08-18 13:42:48] <Emmy B> H what do you think? a- here she misrepresents JA’s views, it is a blatant lie easily disproved still a toxic lie that made the rounds at the time:

[2015-08-18 13:42:55] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-08-18 13:44:55] <Emmy B> b. here:

[2015-08-18 13:48:16] <Emmy B> “And despite reports to the contrary, Assange’s accusers have always said that this was not consensual sex.” (hyperlinking in ‘always said’) this Guardian article

[2015-08-18 13:49:18] <Emmy B> I view her as someone who will use quotes/articles and misquote or misrepresent them so as to create backing for her point of view.

[2015-08-18 13:50:15] <Emmy B> If SW has given an interview Valenti may misrepresent and misquote to prove her point. What do you think?

[2015-08-18 14:01:17] <Emmy B> Sorry I forgot the original article where she participates on #talkaboutit

[2015-08-18 14:04:13] <Emmy B> 4. Swedish feminists defend Assange accuser with #talkaboutit campaign Last Active Captured URL 21 June 2012

[2015-08-18 14:05:51] <noll> the quote is “non-violence in terms of abortion” and JA is stating their position – & not his own, which is.. (watch another minute Valenti..) “I think the world is often more complex”. the “pre-Roe” thing refers to:

[2015-08-18 14:14:29] <Emmy B> thanx!

[2015-08-18 14:15:17] <Emmy B> a good rebuttal of her washington post article:

[2015-08-18 14:54:11] <WISE Up Action> Thanks, Em – that’s useful. Valenti seems to be one of those ‘conflaters’ amongst other things, which is a particularly sloppy and/or devious way of arguing a point that becomes very difficult to rebut (having to pull the strands apart is long-winded and people lose interest/think it’s fussing with detail – which of course ‘the devil is in..!’

[2015-08-18 15:00:31] <LibertarianLibrarian> She may not be worth rebutting. Might be better to ignore and just keep getting the truth out as widely as possible. Let her fall over her own culpability and malevolence.

[2015-08-18 15:02:23] <LibertarianLibrarian> On the other hand, it might be worth well-publicizing Fritz’s ‘accuser’ attorney money-making scheme. It’s a very bizarre thing.

[2015-08-18 15:03:52] <LibertarianLibrarian> Borgstrom has an earned himself an awful reputation; wouldn’t be surprised to see Fritz similarly disliked/distrusted.

[2015-08-18 15:04:43] <LibertarianLibrarian> Push the corruption side of her earning her money through publicity not legal work.

[2015-08-18 15:17:14] <WikiLeaks> Here is what we are considering releasing. Comments?

[2015-08-18 15:17:56] <WISE Up Action> That site of hers (Fritz) is really something. They so look like they’re about to start singing and dancing in some 80s (Collins) musical extravaganza. It just exudes the epitome of everything that ISN’T really feminist ffs

[2015-08-18 15:25:07] <WikiLeaks> Money, influence, glamour for women helping women imprison men. It may not be your type of feminism, but they don’t cae.

[2015-08-18 15:31:19] <WISE Up Action> I started reading the statement thinking ‘Oh no, don’t preempt…’, but after reading it, I do think it’s really very good – well selected content. It also manages to sound authoritative, brooking no nonsense, and very calm. Will carry on reading through it thinking about detail.

[2015-08-18 15:33:43] <WikiLeaks> In a press war you should almost always pre-empt.

[2015-08-18 15:35:00] <WISE Up Action> OK, but I meant preempt an answer to what you don’t know you’re answering!!

[2015-08-18 15:36:24] <WISE Up Action> (eg as in a sort of rebuttal) however this is not that ofc

[2015-08-18 15:51:04] <WISE Up Action> Yes, I think it is excellent from the point of view of being very straightforward too, and it sticks to salient points which carry a great deal of conviction.

It’s also easy to read yet, as well, manages to contain a great deal of info which, with the mass of misinformation that’s abroad, will be news to many. Thus (as WLs said earlier) hopefully igniting a more profitable discussion.

[2015-08-18 15:59:17] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet]

[2015-08-18 15:59:43] <noll> agree. / would be amusing to put “JV self-described “feminist evangelist” & author of ‘Why Have Kids?’..” at the start.. (please don’t!) review: “The book itself is split into two parts: “Lies” (including “Children Make You Happy,” “Women Are the Natural Parent,” “Breast is Best,” “Children Need Their Parents,” “‘The Hardest Job in the World’,” and “MOther Knows Best”) and “Truth” (including “Giving Up on Parenthood,” “‘Bad’ Mothers Go to Jail,” “Smart Women Don’t Have Kids,” “Death of the Nuclear Family,” “Women Should Work,” and “Why Have Kids?”). Those titles themselves speak for themselves on how the author seems to view parenting.”

[2015-08-18 16:08:48] <noll>

[2015-08-18 16:16:03] <WISE Up Action> Ta.

One of the reviews on the Amazon page: “She also had an uncomfortable amount of forum and blog post entries as credible sources, quoting people like “Jessica Wabbit” which is the kind of thing I wouldn’t have even tried to get away with in my high school research papers.”

[2015-08-18 17:01:26] <WISE Up Action> I think she should have had the courage and nouse to write a personal testimony instead of trying to frame it as a book of universals. As a personal perspective it would have credibility; there’s a place for writing in an extreme way about situations like that – it has its own emotional truth. But you should never ever write it into a polemic imo.

Plainly it’s a crap book and she’s a shit, lazy writer and researcher.

On motherhood as the ultimate feminine trait I agree and don’t in equal measure and it would be an essay…not for here – tho I’d love to engage w/it!

[2015-08-18 22:27:54] <Emmy B> interestingly, the

[2015-08-18 22:29:19] <Emmy B> the site domain no longer re-directs to

[2015-08-18 22:36:55] <Emmy B> full of links from WLCentral and Rixstep

[2015-08-18 22:43:43] <WISE Up Action> Unbebloodylievable!

[2015-08-18 22:44:16] <Emmy B> Heh! 😀 I had left my tab open from yesterday’s Domain Tools Search here is the screenshot that shows 18.08.2015 search result for

[2015-08-18 22:45:48] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-08-18 22:54:04] <Emmy B> On first look it seems Sands acquired the domain name 23 May 2015

[2015-08-18 22:55:32] <Emmy B> Archived domain search here:

[2015-08-18 22:58:37] <WISE Up Action> Yeh – there’s a fair bit that’s actually dated 2015 – even this month

[2015-08-18 23:01:21] <WISE Up Action> Night x (well, morning actually!)

[2015-08-18 23:09:14] <Emmy B> Thx, good morning from me, off to the bakery for fresh Galaktobureko yumm! on a lighter note, read comments here:

[2015-08-19 01:19:43] <Emmy B> A 3 minute video on Christine Ann Sands behaviour outside Hamstead Christchurch that caused her conviction in April 2015

[2015-08-19 01:20:44] <Emmy B> If Valenti mentions the sofiawilen website imagine how prolific Chrisitne will be, finally making the international press

[2015-08-19 01:21:11] <Emmy B> Should I make a blog post about her and send it to David Crouch?

[2015-08-19 01:25:16] <Emmy B> In the past we had discussed not to include her in troll lists or delve on her activities as she was so prolific, it would only feed her obsession and encourage her. But if this person is to receive international attention in a Valenti article then surely we should not let her be presented as the representative sample of WLsup – Thank you very much.

[2015-08-19 04:45:02] <WikiLeaks> Sands has made negative comments about JA/WL

[2015-08-19 05:00:09] <Emmy B> And many negative comments about his supporters, I might have to unblock her accounts so I can actually see & collect her tweets.

[2015-08-19 05:58:07] <LibertarianLibrarian> Morning all. I’m not familiar with Sands. As she’s obviously unstable, clearly establishing that she’s a fringe nut job is probably a good idea.

[2015-08-19 05:59:39] <LibertarianLibrarian> I couldn’t get the

[2015-08-19 06:07:15] <WikiLeaks> In what way did it fail?

[2015-08-19 06:11:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> I got a blank page, with both firefox and chrome. Could be my phone though, let me try on the desktop.

[2015-08-19 06:13:43] <LibertarianLibrarian> Nope, same on desktop in both browsers. Disabling privacy badger, ghostery and https everywhere didn’t help.

[2015-08-19 06:15:29] <WikiLeaks> And what url?

[2015-08-19 06:17:31] <LibertarianLibrarian> Tried both

[2015-08-19 06:18:51] <LibertarianLibrarian> The base sites work for both .com and .org, so it’s not just a US-blocking or something bizarre like that.

[2015-08-19 06:21:17] <WikiLeaks> the url is

[2015-08-19 06:30:06] <LibertarianLibrarian> Got it and yes, it takes just the right tone. Sets out the facts clearly while avoiding the kind of polemic that Valenti is likely to toss out. Is it ready to share now?

[2015-08-19 06:32:57] <LibertarianLibrarian> Looks like it is, awesome!

[2015-08-19 07:02:47] <noll> via Bella – Valenti & #PrataOmDet:

[2015-08-19 07:07:24] <M> [Tweet] JA-haters are rallying the troops

[2015-08-19 07:16:19] <LibertarianLibrarian> Considering how many strong, intelligent, professional women support JA, the whole ‘anti-feminist’ thing is a complete joke. But rabid feminists of this sort refuse to listen to anything that counters their ideology, even if it comes from other women.

[2015-08-19 07:17:14] <LibertarianLibrarian> I just got my ticket to the 9/8 Verso Books event! It’s a nuisance drive into Brooklyn, ~50 miles that will take closer to 2 hours, but worth it!

[2015-08-19 07:46:42] <Emmy B> I don’t even see this as a feminist dialectic issue, once a matter completely veers off the most basic of facts then it is only an opportunity to bully and spit on others as a tool of social exclusion.

[2015-08-19 07:51:53] <Emmy B> When as a child once was asked to offer my chair to my brother as he entered the room so as to sit next to the fire. There was no logic or fact required, reason had nothing to do with it. I had to make space for him and I did. Such articles that I have read JV producing is telling the world there is no space close to the fire for JA, others have to sit there. It is a social exclusion that aims to the physical and intellectual disappearance of the other from a space they wish to dominate.

[2015-08-19 07:54:22] <Emmy B> It is not about the truth or the facts or the protection of others or philosophising about ethics and morals, it is all about complete exclusion from the social/political space that they themselves wish to not just occupy but dominate.

[2015-08-19 07:58:49] <Emmy B> Unfortunately the Guardian has proved again and again that as an organisation wishes to dominate that space by the fire, see the contempt they treat Jeremy Corbyn. But JV may not be a suitable banner bearer, I expect her article to be heavily edited as it would not stand to scrutiny. Her only gravitas will be carrying SW voice, a great shame.

[2015-08-19 08:01:38] <Emmy B> Mrs Fritz cannot have her client’s best interest at heart to be arranging such collaboration, literally throwing her name on the ring of public scrutiny when she knows there is nothing to be gained.

[2015-08-19 08:06:07] <LibertarianLibrarian> That makes a lot of sense, Emmy. It’s not about the issue itself but their own power and recognition and the ability to push others down. I’ve seen that in many other areas too, it’s just that I’ve had personal run-ins with too many feminists like that. But it can happen anywhere insecure people need attention & domination of others to build up their own self-image.

[2015-08-19 08:06:57] <Emmy B> And there confirms once again the politicisation of the case. I wonder will it be a bit like what MGT attempted to do with the Steinitz journo at the Stern….and having his lawyer giving quotes etc. Let’s see because now, with the AA case dropped and SW case remaining maybe it will be easier to sue for defaming and finally through this lawsuit get access to the MSM messages in the case file, so guarded by Ny?

[2015-08-19 08:07:18] <WISE Up Action> It is the use of tools of social exclusion (oppression) that are perceived to have been (and be being) used against them. What (as Bella puts it) ‘old-skool feminism’ does is reject those tools altogether.

Experience shld be heard and has it’s own legitimate space, and this is of its essence an emotional space – people’s personal narrative is a vital part of the truth. That can be as expressed in as extreme a way as people’s emotions are. It’s the stuff of poetry, memoir, art etc

What this stuff does is to place that emotional violence in a journalistic space and ask it to be recognised as objective.

[2015-08-19 08:07:53] <LibertarianLibrarian> Mrs Fritz has only been out for herself from the start. She’s been somewhat in the background compared to Borgstrom, because of his public profile and history, but now she can get the attention regardless of the impact on her ‘client’.

[2015-08-19 08:15:49] <LibertarianLibrarian> I think it’s also a fallacy to say that journalism is ‘objective’ except in cases where the evidence is clearly and openly provided, as Wikileaks has sought to do by making all documents available. Yet, even the straight out “x happened” can be shaded by personal bias. That’s a big issue in research and it reminds me of the difference between ‘analytic’ or ‘quantitative’ studies vs qualitative studies, where the latter deliberately explore personal experience and narrative. The issue is that even the best ‘analytic’ research always has some level of potential bias and when evaluating it, the risk of bias must be considered.

I’d rather see journalists who are capable of recognizing and accounting for their personal biases, willing to minimize those by providing documentary evidence, but without the false pretense of objectivity, as it seems that those who cry the loudest about being objective are usually the most biased.

[2015-08-19 08:19:52] <WISE Up Action> OK – objective probably not the right word – I just mean analytical

[2015-08-19 08:21:05] <Emmy B> We can’t escape wishing to control the narrative when we write an opinion paper, this is hardly a dialogue it is an opinion wishing to influence. If we see this as a march, who would be persuaded to follow the ambitious lawyer with the glitchy suit, screaming money and success? The emotionally charged journalist who holds the hand of what she presents to the world to be a child but in fact is a fully grown woman. The story is five years old and the march has taken a different direction long time ago. Of course there are interests to be served that push to influence events politically as this case has been politicised. But the more narrow the spectrum they focus on the more evident these become.

[2015-08-19 08:22:43] <Emmy B> M has shared an interesting tweet so we already know who in twitter will jump into the ‘debate’ but there is as per usual no real ‘debate’. The only objective is knock JA/WL down off that cosy space by the fire.

[2015-08-19 08:24:00] <WISE Up Action> Do we know when the ‘opinion piece’ is coming out? I can’t remember if it’s been discussed already.

[2015-08-19 08:25:31] <Emmy B> We don’t know. Wait and see.

[2015-08-19 08:27:00] <WISE Up Action> Obviously, the most interesting thing to anyone who isn’t committed to bias already and hasn’t made up their mind what they think, will be SW’s contribution…and that is pretty much a complete unknown I guess

[2015-08-19 08:27:48] <Emmy B> It will not be from the horses mouth though.

[2015-08-19 08:28:15] <WISE Up Action> How d’you mean?

[2015-08-19 08:28:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, it will be interesting to see whether what she says now matches up to those early tweets & texts and how they will attempt to play a change.

[2015-08-19 08:29:29] <WISE Up Action> You mean her words will be presented to suit the agenda, Em? By Valenti?

[2015-08-19 08:30:19] <Emmy B> well, having seen how Valenti misrepresents a JA’s views (referring to a video as proof when the video disproves her point) as I mentioned above yesterday, when she refered to JA’s interview about Ron /Rand Paul

[2015-08-19 08:31:48] <Emmy B> , Having seen again how in one of her posts she hyperlinks to the guardian article as proof of her claim but when you go to the article you do not find that proof but the opposite

[2015-08-19 08:32:54] <Emmy B> I wonder how much of the SW real views we will get to read for ourselves as a substantial quote or are we just going to be ‘served up’ a fillet cut and tailored to suit JV’s agenda

[2015-08-19 08:33:26] <WISE Up Action> That kind of disingenuous/sloppy linking/conflating is referred to specifically by several reviewers of her books

[2015-08-19 08:34:57] <Emmy B> or maybe it will be a Q&A where easily a journo can lead the interviewee to say the bits they are looking to hear… hmmm if that is her case with her books then quite possibly we may not get to hear SW’s voice.

[2015-08-19 08:34:58] <LibertarianLibrarian> If she continues that kind of sloppy misinformation, it certainly gives open room for factual corrections.

[2015-08-19 08:36:04] <WISE Up Action> Trouble is the detail you have to go into is often in itself a distraction – people lose interest/think you’re being picky

[2015-08-19 08:37:11] <Emmy B> Anyway it could be that it will be the lawyer Fritz transferring SW’s voice as in the case of Borgstom telling the journos what AA said, so she could at any time deny it or become hearsay rather than a testament.

[2015-08-19 08:37:35] <LibertarianLibrarian> So you select out a couple of obvious examples and then ‘wonder’ about the accuracy of the rest of it.

That could very well be, Emmy.

[2015-08-19 08:40:14] <Emmy B> How often we have seen amongst trolls that they take a complete sentence, even a true sentence that someone has wrote, and put it into a context that it appears to be a believable lie. At the Fake forum this has been done constantly. A rule of misinformation if you like. It could be SW’s quotes are also used in this way, we don’t know.

[2015-08-19 08:40:52] <WISE Up Action> Yeh – sometimes works but pretty hard not to lose pple’s interest being too complex in a tweet.

Good point abt hearsay, Em

[2015-08-19 08:41:09] <WISE Up Action> ie legally

[2015-08-19 08:42:31] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, taking things out of context is a common ploy. How much of that have we seen already? All we can do is try to point to the true context.

[2015-08-19 08:43:15] <WISE Up Action> And that’s my point about complexity – that sort of deviousness quite effective for reasons I just said. Why I often think sticking to the salient and key factual points best strategy

[2015-08-19 08:45:24] <WISE Up Action> If V’s piece like Steinitz – who was trying to say JA responsible for/encouraged maligning of women by ‘supporters’ that’s an easy point to refute – why shld he be responsible for that?

[2015-08-19 08:45:54] <LibertarianLibrarian> True, it is hard to make more complex things clear in tweets or the more simple social media.

[2015-08-19 08:46:27] <LibertarianLibrarian> Well, we’ll have to see what her piece actually contains and then carefully pick targets, if needed.

[2015-08-19 08:47:24] <Emmy B> I agree! with first point WiseUp and this is all we can do, stick to the facts. Perhaps they will talk about ‘a cult’ again. Also agree with Jenny. But let’s also see how the article will be used in the US, in the UK in Sweden. It will be a starting point for other publications to refer to it and in the process further filter the message to fit the objective. In the UK due to the clear position of the UK government.

[2015-08-19 08:48:11] <Emmy B> (they have accused Ecuador of preventing due process to take place influencing judicial outcome)

[2015-08-19 08:49:00] <WISE Up Action> Agreed – gotta go cook for 11 of us – ugh

[2015-08-19 08:49:30] <Emmy B> happy cooking xxx

[2015-08-19 09:30:40] <Emmy B> I am unblocking Christine Ann Sands accounts to see what she is up to.

Million Mask March


Sands Sands


[2015-08-19 09:44:31] <M> I notice a lot of tweets being directed at Valenti. I’m a bit worried because I don’t want her to be able to claim harassment by JA supporters, especially even before she’s actually published anything.

[2015-08-19 09:47:22] <WikiLeaks> Yes, it is foolish. She will include them in her article and spin their context.

[2015-08-19 12:28:32] <M> [Tweet] Excerpt from Helen Lewis’ Times article. Unfortunately am unable to find full text.

[2015-08-19 12:31:32] <M> Nvm just found one! Here is full text of Helen Lewis’ article:

[2015-08-19 12:32:24] <M> What

[2015-08-19 12:48:32] <WISE Up Action> ‘In deference to these concerns, the Swedish prosecutor asked in March to interview him in the embassy. She has so far been rebuffed by Ecuadorean officials’

[2015-08-19 12:49:13] <Emmy B> Otherwise Recycling old stuff … And quoting Mr Bennet (P&P Austen) in her twitter bio and not attribute… very elitist, ‘only the ones who know’ kind of girl?

[2015-08-19 12:49:29] <Emmy B> what did you cook? 🙂

[2015-08-19 12:56:37] <WISE Up Action> Ha – roast x

Thanks for finding, M!

It’s helpful she aligns JA w Russell and the stupid BS abt Corbyn.

[2015-08-19 14:28:48] <WikiLeaks> Bitter Oxford social climber, they’re all the same.

[2015-08-19 14:30:38] <WikiLeaks> Slander perceived opponents of the establishment in a sad attempt to be lifted into it. But the Eton boys will never accept Lewis no matter how hard she sucks their toes.

[2015-08-19 14:51:39] <WISE Up Action> She’s about as radical as um… Yvette Cooper

[2015-08-19 15:54:35] <M> Good debate: Wendy McElroy versus Jessica Valenti (Nov 2014). A real feminist versus new wave “feminism”.

[2015-08-19 18:19:03] <noll> on the surface JV makes many compelling points, but how accurate are they? when the bias is clear w/ her primary example: “The protests are part of a larger nationwide movement to reform campus sexual assault policies – one whose necessity is exemplified by Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s recent Rolling Stone feature on a harrowing sexual assault at a University of Virginia fraternity”

[2015-08-19 18:20:33] <noll> – the last of those links which is highly relevant to JA case.

[2015-08-19 18:20:43] <WikiLeaks> She’s picked the wrong horse on all the big recent cases.

[2015-08-19 18:27:33] <noll> agree. but in short-term, it often depends on who & why various parties are willing to carry, or follow this type of horse – & it always ends w/: a means to enable self-interested ends.

[2015-08-19 18:28:33] <noll> no one is buying it, but how many will anyway.

[2015-08-19 18:56:25] <WikiLeaks> The fake-rape ‘matress’ legal filing his harrowing

[2015-08-19 18:56:45] <WikiLeaks> his=is

[2015-08-19 19:08:19] <noll>

[2015-08-19 19:41:54] <noll> telling.. w/ re to WM/ JV debate, WM singled out diminished standards of proof, JV singled out ES case – which was dismissed by Columbia despite exculpatory evidence being withheld + those lowered standards being in place, see filing para. 35.

[2015-08-20 06:49:35] <Emmy B> It is harrowing

[2015-08-20 06:55:42] <noll> great, looks like Sands is self-distancing.

[2015-08-20 07:58:20] <Emmy B> Since I unblocked her this morning my interactions time line is spammed with her messages, not responding. I am writing to Alison Earle from London Live who interviewed me in March outside the embassy during our solidarity vigil marking 1000 days of JA at the embassy. She witnessed Sands behaviour and how upset, concerned we felt. At the time Alison Earle had herself observed that such behaviour stood out as fake. I am asking for advise, maybe rather than just writing a blog post on the matter, myself and others who knew her here in London issue together a press statement for publication. If Sands name is mentioned in the JV article. We can distance ourselves and condemn her behaviour, not through twitter tittle tattle but properly in a considered and convincing way, eponymously.

[2015-08-20 08:05:14] <Emmy B> Half a dozen people would be happy to do so I am sure.

[2015-08-20 11:31:19] <WikiLeaks> We suspect JV article will be Saturday now.

[2015-08-20 12:01:59] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s smart Emmy.

[2015-08-20 12:42:58] <WISE Up Action> Gobsmacked by all the rape stuff. No idea all that was going down. Cannot believe all those people losing their heads that should be (whose specific job is to be) keeping them level. Now I get yr reference to Crucible, H – didn’t know wtf you were on about. Like recovered memory syndrome too. Should ALWAYS be sus when due process & research standards being undermined. Who can it possibly help?? Aside from even the damage to the falsely accused, if any ‘Emma’ is not bringing the truth, this just locks them in to their damage – how can they possibly recant and find any healing when users are pinning a ‘movement’ on their shoulders? Really distressing.

[2015-08-20 12:49:20] <WikiLeaks> Fast multi-party communications leads to mob dynamics.

[2015-08-20 12:53:41] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, that’s a good point. We do see mob dynamics at work in social media – like the reverse side of rapid spread of news and activism.

[2015-08-20 12:57:29] <WISE Up Action> The very particular thing I value about the spirit of Occupy was what it was always criticised for. As in not coming up with a manifesto.

[2015-08-20 15:29:37] <WikiLeaks> It was criticized for not having a manifesto, because the establishment press wanted something to attack it with its manifesto. It surely would have died even sooner if it had one.

[2015-08-20 15:53:19] <noll> Action, we were also really surprised by all of this, didn’t fully cotton on until the ‘feminist’/ ‘liberal’ content wars jumped the latest media barrier. guess a few things are comparable – but witch trials began w/ a “listen & believe” approach (which was politically useful to the establishment), & ended via an enlightenment insistence on actual evidence/ proof. see last 10 mins of:

[2015-08-20 16:55:03] <WISE Up Action>

[2015-08-20 18:43:47] <noll>[]=cc&qproject[]=fp&q=&qforigin=Iran%23%23Tehran&qtfrom=1979-11-04&qtto=1981-12-31#result

[2015-08-20 18:52:24] <WISE Up Action> Yep. Access to primary sources invaluable. Cuts all the crap. And cuts right across the whole appallingly cynical media/public discourse. As that Buckminster Fuller quote says, a ‘new model’ is the thing that makes the ‘old model obsolete’ – plus the historical record preserved is life-blood critical. Wahey for WikiLeaks!

Parody wasn’t written recently or in response to this convo, but WLs saying the press constantly snarked at Occupy so they could pin it down to take it down reminded me of some of the lines. And also the shallowness/soundbite speech of this ‘rape-culture’ movement makes it, in essence, cynical. And doubtless what we’ll get in the w/e Graun fr V.

On ‘Listen & Believe’, you can ‘listen & believe in’ a person’s humanity, pain etc w/o accepting or rejecting their stated interpretation of how they’re feeling. And diving in on that extremity of emotion & seizing it for your own reasons/agenda/pain without giving it space is the essence of poor counselling.

[2015-08-21 03:34:53] <WikiLeaks> WL wouldn’t last 5 minutes if we addopted ‘listen and believe’.

[2015-08-21 03:40:29] <Emmy B> Thank goodness, please continue doing what you do and under no circumstances do otherwise, counting on you to be different <3

[2015-08-21 03:41:04] <Emmy B> and keep surprising the world 🙂

[2015-08-21 05:51:12] <LibertarianLibrarian> Absolutely. That’s the fundamental in my field, the whole basis for evidence-based healthcare – moving from ‘x’ authority did it that way to the research evidence demonstrates to do it this way.

[2015-08-21 05:51:44] <LibertarianLibrarian> I spend a lot of my time teaching people how to critically examine research evidence.

[2015-08-21 05:52:23] <LibertarianLibrarian> Too bad they don’t teach it as well to journalists these days as they do to medical students.

[2015-08-21 05:53:38] <LibertarianLibrarian> That’s why Wikileaks’ (JA’s) concept of scientific journalism is so important and so impactfull.

[2015-08-21 05:54:23] <LibertarianLibrarian> Is impactfull a word? Tired on Friday morning in the middle of fall faculty orientation sessions. Boring!

[2015-08-21 07:59:18] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-08-21 09:03:14] <WISE Up Action> ‘WikiLeaks Files’ just arrived

[2015-08-21 09:16:50] <noll> interesting..

[2015-08-21 09:25:42] <noll> if anyone’s documenting Sands, would definitely capture some of the latest.

[2015-08-21 09:29:40] <Emmy B> I am not documenting any of her tweets

[2015-08-21 09:30:30] <Emmy B> Her behaviour screams ‘give me attention’ WL supporters, I want your interactions.

[2015-08-21 09:32:04] <WISE Up Action> Even one or two like that wld be sufficient evidence for anyone!! She makes no contact with us at all. Never replied fr the start.

[2015-08-21 09:32:06] <Emmy B> To see Sands and MGT in direct communication is not surprising.

[2015-08-21 15:51:23] <M> New SvD hit piece against JA:

[2015-08-21 16:19:34] <WISE Up Action> It’s pretty childish goss, isn’t it? JA is persona non grata becos he stays up all night and eats takeaways. And refers to Times Diary piece which was just a short v silly para. Jerks.

This (only attempt at *facts* of note) sounds vastly exaggerated tho but maybe translation errors?:

‘the creditors who lost millions when he fled to the Embassy of Ecuador, the publishing company that paid out even more millions in advance for an autobiography he never wrote clear, or the British police that lurpassande outside Embassy goes on 130,000 dollars a day.’

[2015-08-21 23:27:59] <M> Pretty hilarious f-up by Louise Mensch:

[2015-08-22 04:36:47] <noll> ‘Nazi-inspired’ anti-immigration group becomes Sweden’s most popular party.

[2015-08-22 06:20:18] <Emmy B> This is what oppositional politics cause: it very own opposition political movement. Eurogroup’s victory over Tsipras with his capitulation to its demands has split Syriza and Greece now has a new mainstream political party of the Left clearly open to Grexit. With 20th of Sep the election day we won’t have to wait long to see whether the 32 MP rebels will get re-elected and how much support will Tsipras still hold.

[2015-08-22 08:49:03] <WISE Up Action> ‘Jackson visits Assange’ balcony pic top lhs c.3″x5″ near middle of Sat Graun (main section) – no text, just neutral caption

[2015-08-23 00:38:01] <M> Spanish interview, if anyone can translate: Catherine Garay of the Association of German Lawyers in Spain on the Assange case

[2015-08-23 01:24:04] <Emmy B> I think JA’s latest speech in France is embedded in this article.

[2015-08-24 01:45:45] <Emmy B> Valenti has not tweeted since justice4assange issued press release on Forthcoming Opinion Piece in the Guardian 18.08.2015

[2015-08-24 02:38:41] <Emmy B> For info Valenti’s twitter public list of feministing writers, she could use them to create positive trend about her article.

[2015-08-24 02:38:56] <Emmy B> (includes sister)

[2015-08-24 02:41:38] <Emmy B>

[2015-08-24 02:46:33] <Emmy B> Is Jessica involved in sister’s business?

[2015-08-24 02:47:09] <Emmy B> They have turned feminism into dosh!!!! unbelievable what capitalism turns into product.

[2015-08-24 02:47:58] <Emmy B> both sisters co-founded

[2015-08-24 03:22:43] <Emmy B> JV husband’s tweets about Assange few but with an anti bias:

[2015-08-24 03:24:35] <Emmy B> Gibson (now moved on from The Guardian) seems to have brought JV to Guardian US

[2015-08-24 03:44:14] <Emmy B> juicy, JV is still the owner of

[2015-08-24 03:52:47] <Emmy B> she remains as an emeritus as per website

[2015-08-24 03:53:21] <Emmy B> but does not say she is actually the owner of the domain name ie the owner of the publication?

[2015-08-24 03:54:02] <Emmy B> from the website: ‘Feministing is fiscally sponsored by the Center for Sex & Culture’

[2015-08-24 03:54:42] <Emmy B> (I don’t know who funds that centre but Parry Jones is on an advisory board there)

[2015-08-24 03:56:12] <Emmy B> [Media-image] whois record for May 2015 still displayed JV as owner of site

[2015-08-24 03:58:20] <Emmy B> [Media-image] hey ho! Privacy service obtained hiding ownership 8th of July 2015 – what happened? why hide now?

[2015-08-24 04:00:58] <Emmy B> I cannot capture these in as Domain tools is a paying service for whois look up. If someone knows how to, please do. If http://feministing.com

[2015-08-24 04:02:40] <Emmy B> Note that

[2015-08-24 04:07:14] <Emmy B> Should I tweet to all twelve a screen shot together with justice4assange press release asking if there has been a push to promote JV’s article through

[2015-08-24 04:10:34] <Emmy B> ok, I am almost spamming now 🙂 over and out!

[2015-08-24 04:42:57] <Emmy B> just checked the screenshot history of

[2015-08-24 04:43:59] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-08-24 04:44:15] <Emmy B> what on earth does this mean?

[2015-08-24 04:47:46] <Emmy B> Apologies this is from a different domain

[2015-08-24 08:30:56] <LibertarianLibrarian> Let’s see what happens, Emmy, and then we can coordinate a response. Best to keep it factual and directed.

[2015-08-24 10:57:32] <Emmy B> yep!

[DMConversationEntry] M added voidiss

[2015-08-25 02:32:05] <Emmy B> Welcome Greta!

[2015-08-25 02:32:53] <voidiss> Thank you!

[2015-08-25 02:36:21] <Emmy B> We discuss here articles and whatever else we wish to bring to eachother’s attention. Although it is a direct message there is a great number of participants and you can check who is included in this group chat by clicking on the right hand side three dots and click ‘view people’ from the drop down menu.

[2015-08-25 02:38:19] <Emmy B> Enjoy 🙂

[2015-08-25 02:44:27] <voidiss> Thanks, Emmy, already checked who’s in! Okay, so when I will find an interesting article, I will share with you all! 🙂

[2015-08-25 06:40:01] <M> [Tweet] Amusing fight between Guardian columnist Marina Hyde and Medialens/Greenwald.

[2015-08-25 06:40:21] <M> (see Twitter link for full thread)

[2015-08-25 06:41:51] <M> [Tweet] Amusing fight between Guardian columnist Marina Hyde and Greenwald/Media Lens.

[2015-08-25 06:45:35] <M> Also, bizarre attack on the entirety of the left (incl., of course, JA supporters) by Sarah Ditum, who is no stranger to attacks on JA.

[2015-08-25 06:46:32] <LibertarianLibrarian> Welcome Greta!

[2015-08-25 06:46:52] <LibertarianLibrarian> That is a really bizarre article by Ditum.

[2015-08-25 07:40:37] <voidiss> Yes, I agree, Ditum’s article is really strange as an attack. It can be also interesting from another point of view, but the low blows against Assange and supporters are always the same and they’re put in even when they have nothing to do with the article itself. Also, I think Hyde’s “joke” is very telling: it isn’t a proper criticism so MediaLens can’t answer back, but still it pushes a dangerous (and too much rooted) smear. When they don’t know how to attack they use the “conspiracy/paranoia” card.

[2015-08-25 07:40:49] <voidiss> (Thank you Jenny!)

[2015-08-25 08:00:39] <WikiLeaks> We hear Guardian are very nervous about the JV article. So either its likely to have been massively expanded with a news reporter or its been killed.

[2015-08-25 08:32:41] <WikiLeaks> Andrew Golis @agolis, is not just JV’s husband and not just anti-JA. He was involved in the PBS documentary attack on WL. After airing it, PBS was hacked by anons in response and forced to issue a humiliating press release stating that Tupac was alive and found in New Zealand.

[2015-08-25 09:56:45] <M> Guardian/Gitmo article avoids citing WL; says “long-neglected US military capture information”, which links to Miami Herald, instead of to WL directly.

[2015-08-25 09:59:22] <LibertarianLibrarian> All of which is typical of the Guardian.

[2015-08-25 10:03:47] <LibertarianLibrarian> I could see that JV’s ‘style’ of rather unsubtle assaultive writing could make them nervous.

[2015-08-25 10:23:19] <WISE Up Action> Hello, Greta. Welcome!

[2015-08-25 10:35:46] <voidiss> Their nervousness for JV’s article shows that they know the piece is going to be full of lies/smears and so they feel the pressure of having

[2015-08-25 10:35:53] <voidiss> to handle it properly, saving their face. If they kill it after

[2015-08-25 14:11:16] <Emmy B> Very interesting info about @ agolis

[2015-08-25 14:14:08] <Emmy B> An SW interview is highly monetisable if not literally in selling it onwards, at least in bringing traffic onto their site and getting quoted by others as well as hyperlinked.

[2015-08-25 14:14:56] <Emmy B> Ie if they have it, they will somehow monetise it/ use it, one way or another.

[2015-08-25 14:16:30] <Emmy B> On another issue, not the first time that I notice MGT interacting with James Ball.

[2015-08-25 14:16:53] <WikiLeaks> When?

[2015-08-25 14:19:13] <Emmy B> 24th –

[2015-08-25 14:26:54] <WikiLeaks> Well spotted; likely trying to do a deal over the alleged ecuadorian intel docs published in Focus Ecuador

[2015-08-25 14:39:37] <Emmy B> MGT has been having them translated and posted in his site.

[2015-08-25 14:41:56] <Emmy B> He is a proven prolific liar, manufacturer of lies, anything he propagates I see with the greatest suspicion.

[2015-08-25 14:52:40] <voidiss> As has been noted, the article on Focus Ecuador was written by Villavicencio, who was convicted of defaming Correa and fled to US. I’m not commenting on his case, I’m just pointing out that US are surely very willing to use him as symbol of ‘bad Ecuador’s skewed free press right’ and that probably, since they’re hosting him, he’s playing by their side and has interest in writing an article like that. Surely MGT is super happy of it, so he can use it to smear over and over.

[2015-08-25 14:56:41] <WikiLeaks> MGT is small fry; no-one follows him and almost no-one reads his nonsense on the fake WLF. However, his “outreach” activities do need to be watched.

[2015-08-25 15:04:05] <Emmy B> Sadly I do read his nonsense and will be keeping an eye as per usual.

[2015-08-25 15:05:12] <voidiss> Yes, his site is really absurd and exaggerated, it’d be impossible for people to believe it. But MGT likes to exploit the pointless “Assange doesn’t criticize Ecuador” card.

[2015-08-25 22:30:15] <M> [Tweet] Hah.

[2015-08-25 23:07:44] <voidiss> Wow! I want to see one of those crayfish (before the US will start a crusade to slay them all. lol)

[2015-08-26 05:57:18] <LibertarianLibrarian> I doubt my govt would get away with attacking crayfish, environmentalists would go nuts. It’s only humans that are ‘fair game’ sadly.

[2015-08-26 05:59:19] <LibertarianLibrarian> You’ve got a stronger stomach than I do, Emmy, reading MGT’s stuff.

[2015-08-26 09:02:47] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-08-26 11:37:11] <voidiss> This article – and the related talk at the CCCamp15 – are really interesting (and quite terrifying):

[2015-08-26 13:25:49] <WikiLeaks> We’re somewhat horrified that Gizmodo has that first. The publisher must be on drugs. But we hear Newsweek is in two days.

[2015-08-26 13:38:45] <WikiLeaks> The talk is on Youtube and is worth watching.

[2015-08-26 13:42:56] <M> Link for the lazy:

[2015-08-26 13:45:59] <voidiss> Oh, I imagined it wasn’t your decision publishing on Gizmodo. Shame on the publisher.

[2015-08-26 15:22:43] <WISE Up Action> The CCR statement responding to FCO’s criticism of Ecuador

[2015-08-26 23:21:04] <Emmy B> “The structured attempt at managing an extended cultural and economic system using communications is the hall- mark of empire.” and this explains why WikiLeaks is perceived to be such a threat, because the perceived high risk to its power.

[2015-08-26 23:21:18] <Emmy B> Essay is beautifully written.

[2015-08-26 23:37:51] <Emmy B> Would then the exclusion of WL publications from Academic study denote a kind of Medievalism in US Academia? a sign of decline, the centre of innovation may then be shifting elsewhere.

[2015-08-27 00:05:30] <Emmy B> ‘Every year, more than $1 billion is budgeted for “public diplomacy,” a circumlocutory term for outward-facing propaganda.’

[2015-08-27 00:05:40] <Emmy B> Nato too:

[2015-08-27 00:06:33] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-08-27 02:07:12] <voidiss> Marian Radetzki has written an article about the Assange case:

[2015-08-27 05:31:40] <voidiss> Also, I’ve found this PDF[email protected]_se to this

[2015-08-27 05:33:16] <WikiLeaks> Why is that interesting?

[2015-08-27 05:36:05] <voidiss> I thought that maybe knowing Sweden’s position on that issue may be useful.

[2015-08-27 05:38:15] <WikiLeaks> for FOIAs?

[2015-08-27 05:48:33] <LibertarianLibrarian> Good article by Radetzki, despite poor Google translation. Nice condemnation of prosecutors like Ny.

[2015-08-27 05:59:39] <voidiss> Oh, well… I was meaning in general; since data storage, how data can be used for law enforcement and the connection with privacy are important issues, knowing how Sweden hadles them may be useful in general, to have a more comprehensive view of Sweden itself. I wasn’t thinking about FOIAs, this PDF doesn’t seem to be about that, more about how Swedish regulations on data storage can be balanced with EU/ECHR laws.

[2015-08-27 07:46:40] <Emmy B> Thnx Greta, here is a translation of the article you shared by the Swedish Doctors for Human Rights 🙂

[2015-08-27 07:59:53] <voidiss> Thank you, Emmy!

[2015-08-27 12:28:03] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-08-27 12:28:06] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-08-27 12:28:10] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-08-27 12:29:11] <M> Trust Swedish justice, right?

[2015-08-27 12:39:17] <voidiss> Are they kidding? This is incredibly low also for Sweden. This is a mean mockery – giving a man the illusion of freedom for a day and then other jail he didn’t know anything about? Outrageous. There is no hope for Swedish justice system – not that I need further confirmations.

[2015-08-27 13:51:17] <WikiLeaks> It’s the North Korea of the North.

[2015-08-27 16:37:15] <M> New season of Homeland focuses on leaks, surveillance

[2015-08-27 23:07:57] <Emmy B> Why is the WL Avatar missing its sides in this conversation?

[2015-08-27 23:09:09] <M> All the icons in DMs are cropped into circles.

[2015-08-27 23:11:46] <Emmy B> Thank you.

[2015-08-27 23:17:25] <Emmy B> Regarding MGT’s outreach he claims co-operation with a media partner here:

[2015-08-27 23:18:33] <Emmy B> Hoping for positive legal developments by the end of the year 🙂

[2015-08-27 23:31:53] <voidiss> Which newspaper would be willing to run the risk of publishing unverified material such as those alleged “Embassy spy reports”? These documents are likely to be false, which journalist would ever take the responsibility to publish them knowing the low reputation of WLF?

[2015-08-27 23:31:56] <voidiss> (By the way, I hate when people do jokes like “I don’t think Assange will go anywhere in a hurry”. That’s inhuman.)

[2015-08-27 23:35:42] <Emmy B> Indeed!

[2015-08-28 00:36:06] <voidiss> Newsweek has arrived!

[2015-08-28 02:27:22] <Emmy B> Without any knowledge of French is difficult to assess if this is a positive article overall but certainly makes some positive remarks regarding JA and Asylum policy in France:,202021

[2015-08-28 02:28:29] <Emmy B> [Tweet] oh just saw this

[2015-08-28 02:54:05] <voidiss> I think that being very nationalistic, Le Pen is also one of the strongest opposer of US control over France, so as a result she agrees with offering Assange asylum. But I think it’s positive too.

[2015-08-28 04:04:58] <noll>

[2015-08-28 04:35:25] <noll> some v. informative cables on this.

[2015-08-28 08:40:10] <M> Siggi pleaded guilty to sexual assault charges against nine boys. Verdict in four weeks.

[2015-08-28 08:43:05] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-08-28 08:58:37] <M> Better article on Siggi

[2015-08-28 09:21:50] <M> @davidgcrouch reported on the docs showing that FBI requested Snowden’s extradition from Scandinavian countries. Includes quote from TO:

“This shows the Americans are very determined to get their hands on people that they think have damaged their security or a threat to security policy, and that includes of course Julian Assange.”

[2015-08-28 10:35:28] <LibertarianLibrarian> That report is yet more support for why JA applied for and was given asylum by Ecuador. Sweden’s response even on Snowden made absolutely no sense.

[2015-08-28 12:01:24] <WikiLeaks> if people can tweet the newsweek excerpt (linked perhaps to interior sectiosn via or with image excerpts in the tweet) to the various diplomatic twitter accounts / diplomats / foreign affairs journalists / academics that’d be very helpful!

[2015-08-28 12:01:40] <WikiLeaks> Hopefully we can overcome the Gizmodo idiocy.

[2015-08-28 12:12:43] <noll> “in all likelihood a sociopath..”

[2015-08-28 12:13:58] <voidiss> Oh, sure, I’ll do! With diplomats, from which countries do you mean? US/UK or others?

[2015-08-28 12:14:32] <WikiLeaks> A variety. We noticed a turkish diplomat tweeted it yesterday

[2015-08-28 12:14:47] <WikiLeaks> And there’s a lot of these “twitter diplomacy” accounts

[2015-08-28 12:18:07] <voidiss> Okay, thank you! If someone needs it, I’ve found a list here:

[2015-08-28 12:23:20] <LibertarianLibrarian> oh, nice find, Greta, I was going to ask if anyone had one.

[2015-08-28 12:24:00] <voidiss> You’re welcome!

[2015-08-28 13:02:20] <M> I’d suggest finding a way to divide the list, or finding multiple lists. That way you avoid double-tweeting and also cover more ground.

[2015-08-28 13:04:42] <voidiss> Yes, probably divide them would be better. I’ve found also this list:

[2015-08-28 13:18:02] <voidiss> I start with “Diplomatic Academies” list, now.

[2015-08-28 13:20:26] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’ve been sending out WL’s foreign relations journals tweets to accounts I can find interested in the topic. But I’ll pick up one of the diplomat lists tonight. Still at work for a couple of hours.

[2015-08-28 14:13:09] <WikiLeaks> Does anyone have a times subscription?

[2015-08-28 14:20:14] <M> I know someone with one. Let me try contacting them.

[2015-08-28 17:34:43] <M> Hey Jenny, just a note – on your tweets to the diplomats the picture preview isn’t showing. Picture links starting with “pbs” won’t show previews; they need to start with “pic”. e.g.

[2015-08-28 17:35:52] <M> [Tweet] One way to retrieve that link from another tweet is through the use of the mobile site. So if you want the picture off this tweet:

[2015-08-28 17:36:23] <M> And you can fetch the “pic” version of the image link that way. Hopefully that makes sense. 🙂

[2015-08-28 18:02:30] <WikiLeaks> FYI we have confirmed that James Ball is working on an article re-stating the Focus Ecuador article.

[2015-08-28 19:31:32] <M> Yes re article (previously mentioned that MGT seemed to be feeding it to people, including Ball).

[2015-08-28 19:49:22] <WISE Up Action> God, they are repulsive. Trough, trough, trough.

[2015-08-28 19:53:07] <noll> well, if you want competence re security – do it yourself, but that’s not a choice here. expect Ball et al. will have a field day.

[2015-08-28 19:54:06] <M> Ball is also at Buzzfeed now, which has even lower editorial standards than the Guardian, if any at all.

[2015-08-28 20:00:04] <WISE Up Action> Yep – and just enough veneer of issue to take it out of pure gossip (which I think they’ve done to death as far as the public are concerned tbh – there’s only so many times you can repeat ‘broom cupboard’ and all the other pathetic cliches). They should really get a life before they totally disappear up their own arses.

[2015-08-28 20:02:54] <WISE Up Action> I’ll try to pick up a physical copy of the Times tomorrow (today..), as well as you seeing if you can access online, M

[2015-08-28 20:05:39] <noll> worth saying that as w/ Germany, various ppl could use less blinkers re Ecu. embassy situ is unique/ v. high risk & Ecu nat. interests vs. those of Wls can only stretch so far – it’s complex & Ball isn’t exactly going to be penning a nuanced analysis.

[2015-08-28 23:21:51] <M> [Tweet] Hopefully will have Times article in a few hours. Meanwhile, Appleyard approves of it, which isn’t a good sign (neither is the quote).

[2015-08-29 03:49:48] <WISE Up Action> It’s not nasty. Starts w him stressing the difference between what he’s been told to expect (a raving lunatic) and how he finds JA (perfectly rational). Which he obviously admires under the circumstances. Nonetheless “interviewing Assange is strange. Damn strange” I’ll bet!! Consider the life-choice disconnect.

The piece is kind of ‘languid’, flits about. Probably because he is unfamiliar with/uninterested in the real issues (as in geopolitics/justice/truth etc!).

But he doesn’t go on about the Swedish case at all; there’s much more about the US case, which he seems to take at face-value (despite that quote fr Appleyard). So it’s good in that it doesn’t belittle the threat to Assange even saying “he may be right about that” w ref to JA’s conviction that Ny’s delaying tactics are to serve the US timescale, enable them to build their case.

The worst thing is, that, apart from a ref to the “horrifying footage” of Collateral Murder, he has no regard for/understanding of the ground-breaking work of WikiLeaks, or JA’s role (so, what’s new?). It ends with

the terrible “he’s a hero to many in the land of protest for protest’s sake” after citing who he’s a villain to and why. And it really is like the bloke has landed on an alien planet and is trying to communicate the experience to the normals back home..

[2015-08-29 05:36:55] <voidiss> Thank you for the summary! If the article is like that, it’s really sad even if it’s not a smearing one. It shows one more time that there are too many people who don’t understand anything about WikiLeaks work, who think about Assange and other involved in this struggle as guys who fight just because they’re a sort of “we’re against everything just to be against” – which is so damn wrong -, or who don’t care about the important revelations at all. And all of this is so disappointing, even if it’s expectable, since many many people even refuse to inform themselves of get interested in these issues. And that’s why WL is so essential anyway.

[2015-08-29 05:37:00] <voidiss> And regarding Ball’s collaboration with MGT… I’m really curious to see if he will actually prove those documents are true.

[2015-08-29 06:05:00] <noll> highly likely they are genuine. re article, if spin placed over docs discounted, left w/ a completely unremarkable security service assessment detailing concerns any fool could list. the actual issue here is incompetence (every agency’s greatest enemy) – we’re not going to point out the obvious, or add to information already know.

[2015-08-29 07:17:28] <noll> re the assassination thing:

[2015-08-29 07:28:08] <voidiss> Wait, so are you making another FOI request to UK regarding assassination threats against Assange?

[2015-08-29 07:30:31] <noll> yes, FOI already published re this matter was sent to Foreign Office, the HO request was sent 4 June.

[2015-08-29 07:30:51] <noll> HO = Home Office

[2015-08-29 07:35:28] <voidiss> Oh, okay, two FOIAs to two different govt bodies. Got it, thanks.

[2015-08-29 07:35:35] <voidiss> Well, UK likes Glomar responses so much…

[2015-08-29 07:43:25] <M> Have not heard back from my contact with the Times subscription. Meanwhile, someone scanned and uploaded the article:

[2015-08-29 07:45:48] <voidiss> Great, thank you. Here are some other articles about the interview and the assassination thing:


[2015-08-29 07:58:48] <M> IMO, first half of the interview is quite good. Second half is rather bad, gossipy.

[2015-08-29 08:56:55] <voidiss> I don’t like the tone of the article at all. The author manages to insert small ambiguous and unpleasant comments in many parts, and yes, it’s quite gossipy. But at least there are a few interesting points inside.

[2015-08-29 09:30:13] <voidiss> Another poll in which Sweden Democrats got over 18% of the vote. “We should be establishment, we should dominate public debate”

[2015-08-29 10:24:42] <voidiss> @m_cetera, may you ask to your contact with the Times’ subscription about this article too?

[2015-08-29 10:43:02] <noll> [Tweet] JV’s latest:

[2015-08-29 10:49:49] <noll> [Tweet] JV last “off sm for few days” was Aug 18 – 24. left & returned w/ these.

[2015-08-29 11:49:09] <M> Pastebin of the Times JA interview:

[2015-08-29 13:13:51] <voidiss> Thank you very much!

[2015-08-29 14:27:58] <M> Here is the “Count Assange” article:

[2015-08-29 14:28:50] <M> Unfortunately can’t do for the Times articles because the login name shows up at the top.

[2015-08-29 15:44:50] <M> With The Times publishing stuff more along that line, the sometimes-positivity of today’s magazine interview is quite impressive. The “Count Assange” article is pure speculation, but the author threw in bits taken from other articles in order to make it sound accurate. I love how the only source is “a diplomat familiar with the domestic set-up of Mr Assange”. Seeing as they don’t even specify WHERE the diplomat is from, my bet is that it was a UK diplomat.

[2015-08-29 15:53:03] <voidiss> Yes, maybe it was better not to read “Count Assange”, that’s an all-smearing article. The best thing is seeing how they belittle with no decency the high security concerns over surveillance and monitoring, both on Assange himself and on Ana Alban with the bugging device.

[2015-08-29 16:53:43] <noll> ‘Count Assange’ is reads like a UK FO fantasy that busily taps into Maduro’s 22% rating as though Correa’s 60%+ is not equally deserved, & the “diplomat familiar w/” has reseeded “stories” that are patent bullshit. it terms of an effective hit piece, it’s so amazingly poor, so completely obvious – have to ask, is that deliberate policy?

[2015-08-30 01:52:37] <M> Vivienne Westwood on JA and WL in latest interview:

[2015-08-30 01:52:56] <M> Oops. Nvm, old interview. Never saw it though.

[2015-08-30 02:21:27] <voidiss> In an interview, William Blum says that “there’s a drone with Assange name on it” and that he is the enemy N°1 in US

[2015-08-30 02:24:29] <voidiss> All this is so terrible and frightening. They should’t even dare to try to do something to him, fuck.

[2015-08-30 02:37:42] <voidiss> Ops, that’s an old interview too, from 2013. But it’s in line with the assassination thing.

[2015-08-31 00:30:13] <Emmy B> The Times Interview did not mention ‘The WikiLeaks Files’

[2015-08-31 00:37:12] <voidiss> No, it does, but only in few lines and without analyzing or even citing why it is so important and valuable. Again, Whittell concentrates more on the “gossip” part like trying to guess who has written the anonymous chapters. Of course.

[2015-08-31 04:37:59] <noll> [Tweet] great response to a standard attack line.

[2015-08-31 06:17:08] <noll> guess indication that that report is genuine seen in censoring of focusequador’s entire site. an anti-Wls response.

[2015-08-31 06:20:46] <LibertarianLibrarian> Thanks M – I’ll try that next time re the photo, or put it up on my Tumblr or another website and link to it there.

[2015-08-31 06:21:22] <LibertarianLibrarian> Everything re the articles sounds about par for the course these days.

[2015-08-31 06:30:59] <voidiss> Wait, who has censored Focus Ecuador’s site?

[2015-08-31 06:41:33] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-08-31 06:51:23] <Emmy B> As the political struggle for power intensifies in Ecuador the big money will always find a way to push their message across to get back to power. Let’s not beat about the bush, using Assange for internal Ecuadorian politics can please one and only one master, the US and its local puppets.

[2015-08-31 06:52:45] <voidiss> Thank you, clear now. In

[2015-08-31 06:54:30] <voidiss> Thank you, clear now. It’s likely you’re right… That’s absolutely not a good thing when even Ecuador starts using JA in its political games.

[2015-08-31 06:54:54] <Emmy B> The agents of chaos are feasting in any country that lets powerful interests usurp and subvert social movements as a ladder for them to climb the steps of power.

[2015-08-31 06:58:21] <noll> Greta, it’s not Ecu ‘using JA’ – read the EFF article, it’s Ecu censoring of surveillance reporting, which is hardly w/o precedent.

[2015-08-31 06:58:55] <Emmy B> yep ‘Ecuador starts using JA’ is a simplification. Some power interests within Ecuador may wish to use JA for political games.

[2015-08-31 07:01:15] <voidiss> I’ve read it, I’m not referring to the DMCA notice against Focus Ecuador, I’m refferring to your initial point, that probably if Ares Rights have censored the site it’s because the documents are genuine. And that means they’re spying on him etc, so there may be an interest in using him for “political games” or something.

[2015-08-31 07:03:56] <Emmy B> …the world over… Greece, Italy, UK etc. of course on this particular occasion we are concerned foremost with JA’s safety. Correa’s gov has granted asylum.

[2015-08-31 07:05:07] <M> Comments from Swedish Prosecution Authority officer re today’s meeting between Ecuador and Sweden

[2015-08-31 07:07:40] <voidiss> Exactly. I’m just wondering how sincere the protection Ecuador’s offering to Julian is, now that we know they’re spying on him. I’ve always thought Ecuador was a solid, secure “ally” for Julian, I wouldn’t want to find out this isn’t true.

[2015-08-31 07:09:56] <noll> re ‘spying’ on JA. no security agency on *Earth is not going to do that – never mind JA, they’ll do it to entirety of own staff + all visitors – it’s an embassy! & the most spied upon, except perhaps for US in Moscow, Russia in DC.

[2015-08-31 07:14:36] <noll> of some concern is ‘management’ of JA. & all we can say is Larry David is better experienced on a screen at home.

[2015-08-31 07:14:57] <Emmy B> Thanks M, excellent!

[2015-08-31 07:20:39] <voidiss> What do you mean with “management”?

[2015-08-31 07:25:39] <Emmy B> My dear Greta, The Ecuadorian Embassy is responsible for JA’s safety, they have to manage, organise the security arrangements for his safety. They also have to organise the management of the Ambassadorial business at the Ecuadorian Embassy. And the safety of the Embassy’s staff. It is is for this reason that this space is granted by the Vienna Convention the privileges it has, this space continues and must continue to operate as an Embassy.

[2015-08-31 07:27:19] <voidiss> Okay, got it. I agree too. Sorry for this mess, I just needed to understand what you meant.

[2015-08-31 07:35:10] <Emmy B> I understand and it is good we discuss these matters. We all dream and share your wish for his freedom and try each and everyone of us to do something to help his cause, the WL cause. The Ecuadorian Government has to manage the situation the best way they can continuously for the last three years, under very difficult circumstances. The political leadership of Ecuador remains committed to protect his life, his Human Rights. Despite unprecedented pressures from US Ecuador has found it in their bones to stand up for him. Other Latin American countries support Ecuador’s decision. Other stronger nations like Italy, France, Germany UK, failed to act, even now after all we have learned from WL and Snowden, they still do not act. The world is revealed to us having a very ugly face. Still, it is Ecuador we have to thank for for every day that it passes.

[2015-08-31 07:36:45] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, it’s sometimes confusing, esp. when trying to weed out truth from propaganda. I’m not tremendously surprised that Correa has some bad apples around or that his govt, like any other, is engaged in some surveillance activities. It’s pervasive. I do suspect, however, that some of the attacks on Correa’s govt are due to US attempts to undermine him. But so far, he remains an incredibly popular and successful leader, for good reasons. And his govt seems committed to doing the right the thing by JA.

[2015-08-31 07:38:57] <Emmy B> yep 🙂

[2015-08-31 08:00:22] <noll> if you think ‘let’s monitor JA (what could possibly go wrong), &.. we’ve been hacked by the guys across the street!’ is woeful, it as *nothing compared to:

[2015-08-31 08:09:56] <M> Pretty decent backlash against ABC’s Tom Switzer for saying that WikiLeaks hacks its info on Qanda

[2015-08-31 10:39:59] <WikiLeaks> Ecuador is a state with good factions and bad. However some of the good things it has done are very good indeed, whereas its abuses are quite average.

[2015-08-31 10:51:41] <WikiLeaks> We suspect JV/Guardian have killed that article but remains a possibility that they’re biding their time.

[2015-08-31 10:59:53] <voidiss> It’s sad that some people use to blame JA for those average Ecuador’s abuses. Really pointless but of course very crafty for who has smearing aims.

[2015-08-31 10:59:56] <voidiss> I hope they have actually killed it.

[2015-08-31 11:02:08] <M> Snowden gets similar attacks re Russia. Greenwald made some good comments on it early on — as if there’s a perfect country on Earth to seek asylum in!

[2015-08-31 11:09:36] <WikiLeaks> On the quite average: there’s no allegation that ecuador has killed a journalist, that any are in prison for journalism, or even, with all the recent protests, that a single person was shot.

[2015-08-31 11:10:24] <WikiLeaks> Even in relation to Hackingteam, the allegation is that Ecuador had a license to spy on about 16 people concurrently.

[2015-08-31 11:11:55] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, exactly. Sadly, throwing dirt at other people is a very common method of trying to turn attention away from your own abuses.

[2015-08-31 11:12:21] <WikiLeaks> It hasn’t invaded anyone, bombed anyone, exported weapons to anyone. It’s people are the 3rd happiest in the world, according to Gallap.

[2015-08-31 11:16:16] <WikiLeaks> Its undoubtedly a democracy and its economy has been growing at double the european average for almost a decade.

[2015-08-31 11:16:26] <LibertarianLibrarian> Wow, a whole 16 people! How horrible. *sigh* Meanwhile the govts of the people throwing most of accusations are spying on pretty much the whole world, esp my own.

[2015-08-31 11:19:07] <WikiLeaks> Oil makes up around 15% of the economy, but around 50% of tax revenues so the recent oil collapse has been difficult for the government, which has had to introduce new taxes as a result.

[2015-08-31 11:20:32] <LibertarianLibrarian> Of course, no one likes new taxes. So you get some protests, esp. when the wealthiest sector is hit in their pockets.

[2015-08-31 11:20:56] <voidiss> Thanks for all this information. Correa’s a representative of a lefties government, so of course it’s very convenient for many people – especially US puppets – make Ecuador seem as a soft of oppressive regime, even when it is not, as the information you tell are showing. It has, of course, many difects and “average abuses” to fix, but not as bas as some try to say – and especially, not as bad as many other countries that instead are considered “perfect libertarian democracies”, i.e. US. And obviously Assange is not responsible for politicians’ decision when it comes to “average abuses”.

[2015-08-31 11:22:52] <LibertarianLibrarian> I don’t think anyone in their right mind would think of the US as a ‘perfect libertarian democracy’, esp. not those of us who actually are libertarians. 🙁

[2015-08-31 11:23:55] <voidiss> Oh, well, I’m not referring to informed people! I’m referring also to the image US are trying to show.

[2015-08-31 11:26:02] <LibertarianLibrarian> I suspect that image is pretty much a total fail at this point. I don’t know a single person who is actually happy with our government, even if we totally disagree on what the government should be doing. But the level of disgust with Washington is extraordinary and I get the sense much of the UK feels similarly.

[2015-08-31 11:26:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> The problem is turning that disgust into action.

[2015-08-31 11:26:52] <WikiLeaks> Ecuador has been very good at firing cops. It has fired thousands.

[2015-08-31 11:27:20] <LibertarianLibrarian> Now that’s something a lot of nations could learn from Ecuador.

[2015-08-31 11:29:02] <LibertarianLibrarian> Actually, I think the utter failure of the justice system in the US may – finally – be the thing that sets off real, mass, public response.

[2015-08-31 11:31:24] <LibertarianLibrarian> Bottom-line, we all know Ecuador isn’t perfect, but it has provided some real examples of good, solid leadership and integrity. Goodness knows those are few and far between in today’s world, so well worth celebrating, even despite some imperfections.

[2015-08-31 11:32:11] <Emmy B> I am impressed with the courage and consistency of a small nation finally exercising their sovereignty to improve the welfare of their people, a country that is very poor with a colonial and difficult political past.

[2015-08-31 11:34:51] <Emmy B> My own country, so much better off, but equally small, is instead pre-occupied in de-frauding the state and when caught read handed pass the buck to infinity and beyond, pretending to be the peacock admiring its own feathers.

[2015-08-31 11:35:45] <voidiss> @wikileaks, may I suggest you share publicly this information about Ecuador? This would help, so who say “WL never talks about Ecuador” should have to shut up, and moreover awareness would increase. But it’s just my opinion…

[2015-08-31 11:35:50] <voidiss> Anyway, about the US, here in Italy – especially among uninformed and indifferent young people – the feeling of “trust” for US seems still pretty high. I mean, many knows about the black stains of that govt, but despite this they still claim and believe US are a true democracy, one of the best compared to many bad evil ugly African/Asian countries. And it’s shocking how few actually knows the extent of US surveillance despite the Snowden revelations (almost not covered here apart from some journalists).

[2015-08-31 11:36:14] <Emmy B> even the first glimpse of hope in last January’s election has not survived past 7 months.

[2015-08-31 11:36:59] <voidiss> And yes, I agree with Emmy, at least Ecuador had courage to stand up and also to improve itself. Instead – despite Troika plans were absurd – also Greece had its faults.

[2015-08-31 11:37:10] <Emmy B> WL is not required to defend Ecuadorian politics Greta.

[2015-08-31 11:38:48] <voidiss> No, of course not! But I think it would be helpful for WL itself, to stop the old criticism “not talking about Ecuador”… But maybe you’re right, it’s not the case.

[2015-08-31 11:39:27] <LibertarianLibrarian> It might not be bad for ‘us’ to have some facts on Ecuador saved somewhere, though, when someone throws that kind of stuff at us.

[2015-08-31 11:39:38] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’ve had it happen.

[2015-08-31 11:43:26] <Emmy B> Well it is crystal clear from what MGT tweets that this is exactly the objective of the ones who spit out misinformation, to entangle WL into Ecuadorian internal politics to damage Correa and jeopardise JA’s asylum.

[2015-08-31 11:43:26] <LibertarianLibrarian> Greta, there are a lot of great things about the US. Our Consitution and Bill of Rights, no matter how abused in present practice, stands for things I believe deeply in and would/will fight for. Also, in general, the vast majority of people there, as everywhere, are good people who simply want to live in peace. As the saying goes, power corrupts and that’s a problem everywhere, but esp. when a govt grows as big as the USG.

[2015-08-31 11:44:57] <Emmy B> See how the misinformation about Snowden’s escape twists WL’s involvement to stir discord among LatAme countries with JA at epicentre.

[2015-08-31 11:46:29] <Emmy B> We stick to facts, the truth, supporting WL as each one of us sees fit and able to do so, there is no book with instructions 🙂

[2015-08-31 11:46:45] <WikiLeaks> Yes. There’s mischief there to try and take the heat off US/Europe and make problems for JA in Latam.

[2015-08-31 11:47:01] <LibertarianLibrarian> So far, the LatAm countries have done a surprisingly good job of avoiding that kind of discord given the amount of pressure on them.

[2015-08-31 11:48:14] <LibertarianLibrarian> But there’s no question the pressure is increasing as they continue to try to shore up their independence.

[2015-08-31 11:49:18] <Emmy B> Good point Jenny, They were not born yesterday, these politicians know how the system works, political naivety is rare among them but the flow of money can create a wave of misinformation.

[2015-08-31 11:49:27] <Emmy B> must dash, x

[2015-08-31 12:29:59] <M> [Tweet] FYI: 20committee is has tweeted the WLF translation of the Focus Ecuador article, and he has a fairly sized audience

[2015-08-31 12:31:58] <WikiLeaks> And that’s when its flacid.

[2015-08-31 12:33:05] <WikiLeaks>

[2015-08-31 12:42:47] <noll> a textbook arrogant fascist bastard:

[2015-08-31 12:43:50] <M> Of all the things I didn’t need to see today…

[2015-08-31 12:44:15] <WikiLeaks> Sad man with inferiority complex, once “in” the system, desperately trying to get back.

[2015-08-31 13:31:23] <voidiss> What a shitty person.

[2015-08-31 13:56:04] <WikiLeaks>

[2015-08-31 14:11:55] <voidiss> There’s also this older one:

[2015-08-31 14:13:32] <LibertarianLibrarian> Good grief, that’s inappropriate to say the least.

[2015-08-31 15:00:28] <noll> that old hat stand where everything that happens (that we don’t like) = KGB, CIA, take your pick – it includes memory hole for inconvenient complexities or facts. you can see how it goes via 20’s ‘Belarus Connection’, which is pure bullshit. see:

[2015-08-31 17:15:20] <noll>

[2015-08-31 17:19:41] <noll>

[2015-08-31 19:56:23] <M> El Deber still standing by its Assange story. “It said the English recording of the conversation with Assange matches the Spanish version exactly.”

[2015-08-31 20:15:08] <noll> Subject: WikiLeaks Update

Crowley, Philip J <[email protected]>

Friday, December 24, 2010 4:21 PM

[2015-08-31 20:16:39] <noll> Christmas eve 4.21 pm, “Madame Secretary, first of all, Merry Christmas. I trust you, the President and Chelsea will have a special holiday.” the rest is redacted. what was the present?

[2015-08-31 21:05:22] <WikiLeaks> Quite.

[2015-08-31 21:09:52] <noll>

[2015-08-31 21:37:29] <voidiss> Look the “H: WIKILEAKS. SID” one. That’s almost ridiculous. They were trying to push the “docs show US govt is telling the truth” line. That’s beyond despair, they’re pathetic.

[2015-09-01 02:11:10] <noll> from other side it’s 20’s crowd that are Wls puppet-masters: “In commentary, Granma’s Manuel E. Yepe, a Cuban lawyer, economist, journalist and former Cuban ambassador to Romania, suggests that Wikileaks “yielded to pressure from the USG and the media in managing how and when information was released, and insinuates that right

wing elements in the U.S. are behind the disclosure of the documents.”

[2015-09-01 02:26:34] <noll> [Tweet] apparently Guardian is a better source re Wls actions than Wls.

[2015-09-01 02:48:30] <voidiss> LOL, and where does that story of WL “yielding to pressure” come from? It’s funny, since what USG said is “cease publication, return material, destroy already published docs” and WL did the exact opposite. And about that letter, I particularly like the fear-mongering that bring them to cite even… pandemic diseases.

[2015-09-01 02:55:34] <WikiLeaks> Ball

[2015-09-01 02:59:56] <voidiss> And in Sweden support for NATO membership grows:

[2015-09-01 03:08:26] <noll> amazing that w/ all of the interesting issues the report highlights all Ball can come up w/ is a whatever gossip piece that even resorts to old news padding. it’s fucking pathetic.

[2015-09-01 03:10:53] <WikiLeaks> Yes. And the wankers now congratuating him on the ‘scoop’, which is two weeks old, third hand and extremely dubious.

[2015-09-01 03:18:18] <voidiss> Because obviously a quarrel between Assange and a security guard is a very important information, isn’t it? No — unless you want to depict Assange as an “out of control” guy, which perfectly fits Ball’s aim. Crappy. And he even dares to claim he’s not establishment…

[2015-09-01 03:38:16] <noll> another issue of interest: focusequador = ecuadorreview = Fundamedios = Cesar Recaurte = USAID:

[2015-09-01 03:59:57] <M> It’s amusing how more people are picking up the “fancy dress escape plan” from the article than anything else. Also, the forced “troubled 3 years” headline, for two alleged events over 2.5 years ago.

[2015-09-01 04:06:35] <WikiLeaks> There may be opportunities in the article, re the surveillance

[2015-09-01 04:07:46] <noll> opportunities for?

[2015-09-01 04:08:28] <WikiLeaks> Educate people about the severity of the siege.

[2015-09-01 04:09:36] <WikiLeaks> It’s quite amazing how invariably JA’s successful application for political asylum is turned into “seeking asylum” and the admitted US case is turned into “JA claims of possible US prosecution”.

[2015-09-01 04:10:29] <voidiss> And note the use of the word “flight”.

[2015-09-01 04:15:13] <voidiss> And I find quite damaging that the strategies to get JA out are being reported (even if they had no continuation), since now the MET can prepare a “defence”.

[2015-09-01 04:15:18] <voidiss> By the way, about the opportunities, do you mean using this article to highlight the severity, or using Focus Ecuador’s one?

[2015-09-01 04:18:04] <WikiLeaks> “The room visible in the photos from the secret Ecuadorian report clearly matches the one in an August 2013 video released by Assange as part of his bid to run for the Australian senate (Assange’s embassy room is visible in the video between 3:42 and 4:16).”

[2015-09-01 04:18:25] <WikiLeaks> Actually, it is clearly a completely different room.

[2015-09-01 04:19:29] <WikiLeaks> They’re not strategies. These are just things already mentioned in the press. The idea of Ecuador flying in a rescue helicopter is completely absurd.

[2015-09-01 04:20:43] <WikiLeaks> We just mean if there is pickup. We need to see what is picked up.

[2015-09-01 04:21:00] <WikiLeaks> There’s about 6 angles in the article.

[2015-09-01 04:23:43] <voidiss> Wha to do you mean with 6 angles?

[2015-09-01 04:24:21] <WikiLeaks> Different things the media may pick up on.

[2015-09-01 04:27:36] <M> First media pick up. Dutch article focuses on surveillance, adverse affects to JA.

[2015-09-01 04:38:45] <noll> now that report is available (& focusecuador didn’t post it, so how did WLF get hold of it?

[2015-09-01 04:42:40] <WikiLeaks> That looks like an earlier report that was posted as a pdf. Cryptome has a copy.

[2015-09-01 04:52:55] <noll> [Tweet] hilarious.

[2015-09-01 06:12:17] <voidiss> Another pick up, not so good:

[2015-09-01 07:02:26] <M> [Tweet] Look who’s picked up on 20committee’s bs

[2015-09-01 07:09:53] <voidiss> Oh, WLF has been suspended. But I don’t know why.

[2015-09-01 07:10:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> To me, Ball may have done the opposite of what he wanted – that article clearly shows the intense pressure and difficulty JA has suffered. Of course, the people around him are concerned about his physical and mental health – that’s totally normal. He’s been imprisoned in a small place for years without access to sunshine and knowing his life is in danger, plus the incredible surveillance and number of police outside. Name one person who wouldn’t get a bit stir crazy or have nightmares. To me, this makes JA more sympathetic, not less. It may backfire on them.

[2015-09-01 07:12:20] <LibertarianLibrarian> Can’t complain about WLF being suspended for whatever reason. 🙂

[2015-09-01 07:40:45] <M> Interesting that both Telegraph and Yahoo used ‘fancy dress’ as the headline for covering Ball’s piece.

[2015-09-01 08:05:44] <voidiss> And here is The Independent:

[2015-09-01 08:23:19] <M> [Tweet] Andy Greenberg calls out Ball piece as “paparazzi”. Only suiting for Buzzfeed.

[2015-09-01 08:25:05] <M> [Tweet] BBC/Sky News trying to contact author of original Focus Ecuador article.

[2015-09-01 08:27:09] <M> [Tweet] Also Ball.

[2015-09-01 08:30:32] <M> Gaining a lot of coverage, but again still focusing on “escape plan”. Is it possible Ecuador might issue a reply?

[2015-09-01 08:35:41] <voidiss> Guardian has arrived, with that same line too:

[2015-09-01 09:40:07] <LibertarianLibrarian> Hardly surprising, it’s all tabloid – style reporting these days, sensationalism rules.

[2015-09-01 09:49:26] <M> RT covered the story on a decent fashion.

[2015-09-01 09:51:24] <voidiss> Apart from the ‘has escaped extradition order”. Here is Sputnik version, which I still find too focused on the escape plans:

[2015-09-01 10:26:13] <noll>

[2015-09-01 11:17:05] <LibertarianLibrarian> LOL Hazel

[2015-09-01 11:19:33] <WikiLeaks> Can someone find the 2012 reference in the media to heat scanners?

[2015-09-01 11:39:56] <voidiss> Here at the end of the article there’s a reference to that:

[2015-09-01 11:41:09] <LibertarianLibrarian> This is from 2013:

[2015-09-01 11:41:34] <LibertarianLibrarian> There’s a god bit from 2012 on TSA full body scanners.

[2015-09-01 11:41:42] <LibertarianLibrarian> *good

[2015-09-01 11:46:24] <voidiss> Not strictly related to the Embassy surveillance but on the same topic of heat scanners, there also this recent article:

[2015-09-01 11:47:20] <noll> Greta, that’s it. can’t find anything during 2012 re microwaves, except for the fact that motion detectors often use infrared + microw.

[2015-09-01 12:04:11] <noll>

[2015-09-01 14:13:53] <noll> [Tweet] poor Ball.

[2015-09-01 15:32:51] <Emmy B> Walking over a puddle to get to my UK door? Summer is over and I am back, goodness how busy the chat has been 🙂

[2015-09-01 16:22:02] <M> Looks like WLF has created a new/temp account while they’re suspended.

[2015-09-01 22:29:14] <M>

[2015-09-01 22:56:20] <voidiss> The new WLF account has contacted Mensch.

[2015-09-02 02:47:17] <Emmy B> Whoever wishes to report FWLF to twitter for violations of Twitter Rules can quote the reference at the bottom of the screenshot to link the cases

[2015-09-02 04:02:25] <Bean> [Media-image] hi WL – have this timeline graphic that i put together from request – but not getting any further response on it so as to be able to finalise it (as of 3 weeks ago) – would be a pity for it to go to waste – needs a couple more points to be added to bring it up to date – pls send me some feedback and i’ll get it completed 🙂

[2015-09-02 04:02:46] <Bean> ps welcome greta 🙂

[2015-09-02 04:10:56] <WikiLeaks> Hi Bean. Timeline looks great. Suggest just one addition, Sweden/US in talks about JA’s onwards extradition, Dec 2010

[2015-09-02 04:11:12] <WikiLeaks> i.e that appeared in the independent

[2015-09-02 04:14:45] <Bean> right-o – yep good one to add, ta – what about anything for august 2015?

[2015-09-02 04:19:44] <WikiLeaks> Keep it brief. Something like Swedish prosecution drops three our of four claims due to time limit. O

[2015-09-02 04:22:09] <Bean> ok will do – thx

[2015-09-02 04:22:22] <WikiLeaks> Would also add google warrants and federal court confirms pending prosecution

[2015-09-02 04:30:34] <Bean> will find dates for those or add them to the red bar running throughout the timeline… re the sw/us talks re onward extradition point: it’s actually already included in the dec 7, 2010 point: “US in preemptive talks with Sweden to transfer Assange to US.”

[2015-09-02 05:02:28] <Emmy B> wonderful ! 🙂

[2015-09-02 05:10:25] <voidiss> Wow, it looks absolutely great! 😀 (Thanks, Bean!)

[2015-09-02 05:49:03] <Bean> [Media-image] no worries 🙂 here’s the latest draft… will get a final png together and upload a pdf when all finalised

[2015-09-02 07:05:04] <noll> [Media-image] Hurricanes Kilo, Ignacio & Jimena in northeast Pacific Ocean. (NASA)

[2015-09-02 07:05:11] <noll>

[2015-09-02 07:21:30] <LibertarianLibrarian> Looks great Bean!

[2015-09-02 09:25:24] <WikiLeaks> Only global dictatorship can stop climate change.

[2015-09-02 09:25:58] <WikiLeaks> So things are looking up!

[2015-09-02 09:27:36] <M> [Tweet] OK, this graphic that RT made is pretty great.

[2015-09-02 09:32:02] <WikiLeaks> Luise Mensch is a fruit loop. Might be worth pushing her so it becomes obvious to all.

[2015-09-02 09:32:16] <WikiLeaks> (if it isn’t already)

[2015-09-02 09:33:10] <M> Did you catch this re Mensch a couple weeks ago? Hilarious.

[2015-09-02 09:43:38] <voidiss> Very very interesting article, thank you Hazelpress! Anyway, I completely agree on the “astonishing, terrifying”. It’s alarming that those war game was done on hypothesis for 2015 – hypothesis that actually are happening now. And I find quite scaring (though really telling) that the only way the Five Eyes are finding to deal with climate change is extending the scope of their control over citizens, exercizing more surveillance, both with the May 2013 “emergency authority” and all the different laws to “outlaw/limit protests”. Instead, on the political side, they are doing pretty well, no important political agreement/solutions have been reached (quite the opposite, the latest Artic drilling issue shows). They think the solution to everything is more control — or maybe it’s convenient for them to think so.

[2015-09-02 09:44:13] <voidiss> At the CCCamp there was a talk, “Resisting surveillance”; the main subject of the talk is different from climate change, but a clip made by one of the speaker is linked to this: it’s about a police officer, Mark Kennedy, who infiltrated a environmental activists group and led to the arrest of them all before a planned peaceful action against a coal power plant:

[2015-09-02 09:49:42] <WikiLeaks> The Kennedy talk is excellent

[2015-09-02 09:51:42] <voidiss> Yes, I agree! Not just for the “criminalize enviromental activists” issue, but for the whole subject of physical surveillance in general. It shows the vast scope of non-digital espionage.

[2015-09-02 09:56:35] <Bean> [Media-image] hey all – do you reckon the timeline is good to go?

[2015-09-02 11:37:16] <WikiLeaks> “intervenes” is probably better than “interfers”

[2015-09-02 11:42:10] <voidiss> Maybe you can add 10 August 2010, when the US called on allies to open criminal investigations into Assange… But anyway I love it! <3

[2015-09-02 11:43:20] <WikiLeaks> “google email” could be stronger and start with “US WikiLeaks warrants servered on Google reveal…”

[2015-09-02 11:45:53] <WikiLeaks> You could add “Swedish intelligence seize 3 Assange laptops as he leaves country” for sep 27, 2010

[2015-09-02 11:46:35] <WikiLeaks> There’s the FBI raid in UK on manning’s mother’s house in july, 2010

[2015-09-02 11:47:12] <WikiLeaks> And the private jet with 6 FBI and 2 prosecutors ilicitly landing in Iceland then being kicked out for operating illegally

[2015-09-02 11:47:36] <WikiLeaks> Ditto FBI in denmark

[2015-09-02 11:48:28] <WikiLeaks> there”s the 120 man pengaon “wikileaks war room” staffed with DIA+FBI

[2015-09-02 11:48:44] <WikiLeaks> the bug found in the embassy

[2015-09-02 11:49:17] <WikiLeaks> a whole raft of other stuff that could be used for the US section

[2015-09-02 11:49:28] <WikiLeaks> us filing criminal cases in denmar,sweden,germany

[2015-09-02 11:49:39] <WikiLeaks> Siggi convicted and imrisoned in iceland

[2015-09-02 11:50:07] <WikiLeaks> Lave it up to you whether you think any of these help or whether they’d just serve to make it too busy

[2015-09-02 11:50:57] <voidiss> There’s also the media-coordinated smearing campaign #prataomdet from 2010.

[2015-09-02 11:51:00] <WikiLeaks> snowden rescue could be there

[2015-09-02 11:51:34] <WikiLeaks> or the UK’s cancellation of its UK-Ecuador legal committee as a result

[2015-09-02 11:53:37] <noll> “Taylor Swift should probably seek asylum in the nearest Ecuadorian embassy before she is extradited!”

[2015-09-02 12:02:11] <noll> thanks Greta, & for the link, will watch video this evening.

[2015-09-02 12:07:36] <WikiLeaks> Swift is borning.

[2015-09-02 12:08:14] <WikiLeaks> She uses her celibrity to push inane class ridden sterotypes.

[2015-09-02 12:09:00] <WikiLeaks> 50 shades of grey loving it up in a country mansion, etc.

[2015-09-02 12:09:53] <WikiLeaks> Even gansters with ho’s and fast cars is more original.

[2015-09-02 12:54:17] <WISE Up Action> Getting ‘account suspended’ when trying links posted by M and G for WLF ‘temp a/c’.

[2015-09-02 13:21:36] <voidiss> That her audience are “children” makes more problematic that she’s pushing stereotypes.

[2015-09-02 13:33:56] <LibertarianLibrarian> Bean – the only thing I noticed about the timeline is that I found it slightly difficult to look up and then down to find things in order by time. I know it’s hard to keep it from being very crowded. Maybe make the lines to the content bubbles stronger/larger?

[2015-09-02 13:37:24] <LibertarianLibrarian> Swift isn’t too bad. Pop music these days is basically all image and most of that comes from the corps and managers.

[2015-09-02 13:39:14] <Emmy B> @ WiseUp Chris reported that account too and it got suspended. These are not permanent suspensions.

[2015-09-02 13:52:15] <M> [Tweet] @JuiceRapNews on being used for Ball’s “room confirmation”

[2015-09-02 14:14:43] <noll>

[2015-09-02 14:35:56] <LibertarianLibrarian> I love @JuiceRapNews!

[2015-09-02 14:36:25] <LibertarianLibrarian> The NYT is going down the same slide as the Guardian, sadly.

[2015-09-02 14:52:00] <Bean> thanks all for the timeline suggestions… original idea was to show ongoing activity of US investigation vs lack of activity from the swedish prosecution… so will incorporate some more of those US actions… and good point jenny – yes has been a bit tricky to fit it all in legibly as want it to be an image that can be easily shared (something that can fit on a web page/blog/article) – bolder lines will probably help… will have a further look at it all tomorrow… thx

[2015-09-02 15:35:28] <noll> re report & media’s either sympathetic or sensationalist take on life w/i embassy, worth mentioning ‘Biosphere 2’ project & Jane Poynter’s honest documenting of the challenges:

[2015-09-02 17:25:29] <M> I’ve been out to Biosphere 2 – it is quite extraordinary.

[2015-09-02 19:15:29] <noll> M, would do just about anything to see that place, followed by:

[2015-09-02 19:16:12] <noll> not great quality:

[2015-09-02 20:46:14] <noll> gd. interview w/ Emma Thompson re CC/ refu crisis 20.45:

[2015-09-03 00:13:04] <voidiss> Wow! Never heard of ‘Biosphere 2’, it’s an amazing project, really fascinating from a scientific point of view to see how they manage to keep alive six different biomes in a restricted place like that. Science is so interesting.

[2015-09-03 00:13:17] <voidiss> And the experiment is quite representative… “sealed into a closed environment”. It’s so sad if compared with the Embassy, that crew was there voluntarily, not detained inside. It’s so bad. I’ll read the book, anyway.

[2015-09-03 05:29:21] <noll> FOI sophistry by Cecilia Riddselius:

[2015-09-03 06:38:34] <Emmy B> Despite jubilations for the temporary suspension of FWLF twitter account the truth is MGT managed to create with James Ball’s assistance a story that went viral in UK press. I am concerned that he could therefore persuade James Ball to write about the libellous claims regarding Chris and her daughter. If advance knowledge ever exist over such article please notify me or Chris directly as she will seek an injunction. Thank you 🙂

[2015-09-03 07:03:17] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, we’ll have to keep an eye on Ball. Hate to follow the jerk but worth it if we can help Chris and her daughter. They’ve been through far too much already.

[2015-09-03 07:07:11] <LibertarianLibrarian> The Biosphere is really neat. I toured it once, several years ago, with my father. It was fascinating. Tucson’s well worth a visit, not just for the Biosphere. The Desert Museum is amazing and you can go up into the Canyons and hike – unbelievably gorgeous.

[2015-09-03 07:22:18] <M> Definitely keep on eye on MGT/Ball, but I think this was just a fluke. It wasn’t like MGT was able to spread one of his ridiculous claims alone; he just passed on something that hadn’t caught the attention of western press yet.

[2015-09-03 07:31:06] <M> Sana Saleem (of @couragefound etc) tweeted out a few things against the Ball article.

[2015-09-03 07:45:05] <voidiss> Regarding the Riddselius answer to FOI… It’s incredible that after all the mess in the media and Ecuador’s statement in response, she’s still talking about ‘granting asylum’ when instead it is simply ‘recognizing asylum’: “MoJ, according to the Constitution, cannot make any promises or enter an Agreement granting any persons asylum status on beforehand”. Willing nonsense.

[2015-09-03 08:25:49] <Bean> [Media-image] here’s the latest on the timeline – have added a couple more suggested points to add some depth to the US investigation, but i think any more (such as delving into the icelandic story, and diverting somewhat from the theme with snowden stuff) will just make it all a bit overwhelming. people more likely to read if there aren’t too many points – and then they’ll at least get the salient facts – and the central point re ongoing US investigation whilst swedish prosecutor twiddles her thumbs… feel free to make any further suggestions though of course!

[2015-09-03 08:27:31] <Bean> maybe a subtitle would be good too? something like ‘sweden stalls while US investigates’?

[2015-09-03 09:09:48] <noll> M, Saleem isn’t accurate w/ re to practises during that period. also, it is inconceivable that such incidents (the soup opera stuff) wouldn’t occur, given fact JA is human & not a robot (speaking of which we need to fix a door – furious mother + 10 yr old twins that seem to think they’re living in South LA etc). we don’t know if report is genuine, but if it isn’t, we’d expect actual report would contain v. similar content.

[2015-09-03 09:13:04] <noll> Greta, imagine Riddselius’ reply taking place during a conversation – would seem like absurdist theatre.

[2015-09-03 09:53:12] <noll> in terms of response – a better line to take would be “leaked report reveals extent of Swe/ UK human rights abuses – will it be submitted to ECtHR?” etc.

[2015-09-03 10:32:59] <voidiss> Absurdist’s an euphemism! How can she believe to be credible pushing this already-discredited lie? There was an Ecuador statement in response and she admitted she ‘misunderstood EC’s request’! And yet here she is, again with ‘granting asylum’. She takes advantage b/cos it’s just a FOI and so she dares to answer what she wants, even if when she speaks to press she says ‘Sweden agreed to everything Ecuador requested’.

[2015-09-03 10:33:49] <voidiss> Wait, which leaked report are you talking about?

[2015-09-03 10:36:58] <voidiss> Bean, I think it look really good! I agree with you, better not to fill it too much. Maybe for the Snowden stuff etc there will be another timeline… I think the subtitle it’s a good idea, it could help to get the point immediately.

[2015-09-03 10:43:13] <M> Remember though, after Ecuador’s statement that they did not demand Sweden give JA asylum, Riddselius said, “That’s how we understand it.”

[2015-09-03 10:43:54] <M> When was the misunderstood statement? I just remember the one where she refused to admit they were wrong.

[2015-09-03 11:10:14] <noll> Greta, the various reports given to Focusequador. they clearly state that JA has been put at “psychological risk” & has shown symptoms of “emotional imbalance” – there is also the issue of “vision problems”, all of which is caused by Ny/ Swe’s (w/ UK’s consent) policy of indefinite detention w/o charge.

[2015-09-03 11:16:24] <voidiss> Sorry, M, I remembered the quote wrong, the right one is what you cited. I have interpreted that “that’s how we understood it” as an admission of misunderstanding, not as a refusal to say they were wrong. Maybe it’s just too ambiguous.

[2015-09-03 11:16:33] <voidiss> Oh, yes, I agree with you. It should be a good way to deal with it, especially with the UN Working Group on Abritrary Detention that is going to give it’s verdict.

[2015-09-03 11:16:52] <voidiss> *would

[2015-09-03 11:23:42] <noll> yes, it’s: “Something that government can not do under Swedish law” “- That’s how we understand it, says Cecilia Riddselius at the Justice Department” Riddselius reply basically states: international law applies, international doesn’t apply, come to Swe JA! where international law applies!

[2015-09-03 11:24:21] <noll> * international law doesn’t apply

[2015-09-03 12:41:54] <M> Leaked report has come full circle and is now being reported in Ecuadorian Press.

[2015-09-03 13:09:23] <voidiss> But it seems that articles are still concentrating more on the escape plans than on the heaviness of surveillance.

[2015-09-03 13:12:22] <noll> worth noting JB article & MGT Google Drive does not contain the ‘Operativo Hotel’ docu cited in the Focusequador article:

[2015-09-03 13:38:35] <noll> before 18 August article Villavicencio only mentioned JA 11 times. so, he’s not that interested. where did docs come from? whether genuine or semi-genuine, where was material obtained & by whom? huge story if agencies surveilling embassy have breached Ecu security service & passed material onto likes of Villavicencio.

[2015-09-03 15:32:32] <voidiss> Twitter encrypted DMs!

[2015-09-03 16:43:44] <noll> [Media-image] 84.3% v. 15.6 :o)

[2015-09-03 16:44:40] <noll> panel, except for Owen, in complete denial.

[2015-09-03 16:48:10] <noll> those stats based to 500,000 votes.

[2015-09-03 16:50:26] <noll> if Swe elects far-right, or even if not, & JC wins – could be v. significant re JA case/ human rights abuses.

[2015-09-03 16:54:15] <M> What sort of role/influence do party leaders generally have?

[2015-09-03 16:54:57] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-09-03 17:00:55] <noll> M, it depends how they run the cabinet, & whether allow party conferences to guide or make policy. unlike all recent PMs, JC intends to be democratic. expect critical opposition cabinet positions, such as HO, will be filled by ppl JC can rely on, although events often change that.

[2015-09-03 18:12:08] <M> That’s all PM stuff though, right? And that election isn’t until 2020. Would he have any considerable powers just as party leader?

[2015-09-03 18:37:54] <noll> he can make it a live issue in terms of parliamentary committees (esp. (

[2015-09-03 18:48:28] <noll> committee questions could open up the whole thing, b/c ministers can’t glomar them.

[2015-09-03 18:52:15] <M> I see. Thank you.

[2015-09-03 23:38:10] <Emmy B> Enrica Isabettini now offers her services to James Ball

[2015-09-04 04:36:46] <voidiss> @supportJAdotcom seems another new version of the WLF.

[2015-09-04 07:04:01] <voidiss> Interesting article on the power of information and how common accepted beliefs can be used to manipulate the past

[2015-09-04 07:04:53] <Bean> [Tweet]

[2015-09-04 07:06:54] <WikiLeaks> bean: graphic looks good to us

[2015-09-04 07:08:40] <Bean> cool, ta 🙂

[2015-09-04 07:10:43] <Bean> larger png here too:

[2015-09-04 07:17:45] <voidiss> Amazing!

[2015-09-04 07:31:06] <M> Cryptome published a .zip of files re Focus Ecuador report

[2015-09-04 08:18:51] <Emmy B>

[2015-09-04 08:19:40] <M> There’s an extra ‘s’ in that link 🙂

[2015-09-04 08:24:13] <Emmy B> [Media-image] Oops! True.

[2015-09-04 08:30:55] <WikiLeaks> should be

[2015-09-04 08:40:22] <Emmy B> yes, thank you 🙂

[2015-09-05 05:06:01] <voidiss> Apparently Sweden was involved in aiding the US with “kill decisions” in Afghanistan

[2015-09-05 06:55:06] <noll> we really hope ‘The #WikiLeaks Files’ analysis incl. context. ie. re above:

[2015-09-05 07:00:19] <noll> – that’s assuming this goes back to 2010.

[2015-09-05 07:23:36] <voidiss> With “US 10 August 2010 request”, you mean the one about opening investigation into Assange, don’t you?

[2015-09-05 07:23:40] <voidiss> Because yes, I agree. Also because in 2010, MUST stated they needed to “find out if subsequent releases could be detrimental to our troops”

[2015-09-05 08:30:00] <noll> sorry posted wrong link, meant “US Urges Allies to Crack Down on WikiLeaks”:

[2015-09-05 08:44:01] <noll> yes, would be interesting to know when idea of Chapter 19 changes first documented in govt records.

[2015-09-05 09:01:41] <voidiss> FOIA, maybe?

[2015-09-05 11:52:26] <noll> yes, will do, worth it in case close to Aug 2010. yesterday made complaint to ICO re HO not responding, & sent FOI: ‘how much has JA case cost?’ to Swe, to compare to UK costs.

[2015-09-05 12:13:44] <noll>

[2015-09-05 12:18:35] <noll>

[2015-09-05 12:25:49] <noll> guess only question is – which documents, or what parts of documents have been doctored by Ball/ Guardian’s oil-related USAID pal.

[2015-09-05 12:27:41] <M> Important Cool might be interested in doing an investigative piece on Villavicencio, since they’ve covered false reporting about Ecuador quite a bit in the past.

[2015-09-05 14:57:33] <Emmy B> TPP – The Press Project form Greece have launched this petition :

[2015-09-05 14:58:34] <Emmy B> Today in Greek they publish

[2015-09-05 14:59:58] <Emmy B> ‘When EU was sinking the migrants’ boats’ linking to WikiLeaks

[2015-09-05 15:02:08] <Emmy B> in support of their efforts to change EU policy regarding migrants/refugees from the militaristic approach to a humane solution.

[2015-09-05 15:04:03] <Emmy B> they also link to an earlier Guardian article

[2015-09-05 15:09:12] <Emmy B> Interestingly, although TPP subtitles the article “The Press Project in collaboration with WikiLeaks…” and atributes extensively to WL by referral to the docs released, they do not directly link to the

[2015-09-05 15:11:26] <Emmy B> I don’t recall if WL had a greek partner for this release. Being one of the two countries of entry for EU (Italy being the other) there is obviously a lot of interest on the topic.

[2015-09-05 15:17:13] <Emmy B> The concluding paragraph says “The European Council approved the military assistance against Assad in Syria in recent years and helped to equip the rebels (later named ISIS who stained with the region with blood) once again respond with military interventions to one of the most complex immigration problems.

The ThePressProject already took the initiative of collecting signatures for the reversal of the European Commission policy. Instead of spending millions of euros on the bombing of civilian infrastructure and the dealing with the “public relations management” of the problem we propose the creation of humanitarian structures for documents (visas) at the nodes/centres of movement of refugees in order not to see more drowned children washed up on the Mediterranean seas.”

[2015-09-05 15:19:25] <Emmy B> I mention this article here because it is the first time I see a WL document being published and promoted by a Greek reputable site in support of a (in effect) political campaigning. It remains to be seen if any political party picks up the proposal. 🙂

[2015-09-05 16:47:40] <M> JV piece may have been abandoned, but Guardian just published a big hit piece on Assange/Ecuador by Nick Cohen. It’s seriously pathetic.

[2015-09-05 16:52:28] <Emmy B> (his hyperlinking to New stateman’s DAG article not working *grin*)

[2015-09-05 16:54:46] <Emmy B> If Corbyn is ever elected, the Guardian might include Britain on their list of authoritarian countries. How bizarre!

[2015-09-05 17:08:26] <Emmy B> *like*

[2015-09-06 05:55:15] <voidiss> Thank you, Emmy, for the info about TPP! I get the impression that WL is rather popular in Greece, first with Varoufakis and the TTIP prize, than with this petition linking to documents. It’s great!

[2015-09-06 05:56:31] <voidiss> And regarding the Guardian article… I will never stop being disgusted by all these smearing attemps, even if they’re so expectable now. It’s horrible. Obviously there’s the link to Ball article. And obviously Cohen cites the Buzzfeed documents but he “looks beyond” the difficult situation of Assange as if it’s of no importance.

[2015-09-07 05:06:54] <noll> interesting, Nick Cohen in 2001, ‘Bread not Bombs: By doing little to avert a famine in Afghanistan, the West is sowing the seeds for more Islamic hatred’

[2015-09-07 05:11:25] <WikiLeaks> Cohen follows a well warn trajectory. Get left, get some power, get right, get more power.

[2015-09-07 05:12:56] <WikiLeaks> He’s a lesser Hitchens, of whom, he is of course, a fan.

[2015-09-07 06:48:44] <Emmy B> MGT promises more ‘revelations’ started using

[2015-09-07 06:48:58] <Emmy B>

[2015-09-07 07:26:44] <noll> [Tweet][email protected] TL suggests could be improvement over past BBC ‘interviews’.

[2015-09-07 07:28:20] <voidiss> Sorry, what is TL?

[2015-09-07 07:28:39] <noll> amusing if Ecu asked for MGT’s extradition on espionage charges & he sought asylum in US embassy.

[2015-09-07 07:28:50] <noll> TL = Twitter line

[2015-09-07 07:31:51] <noll> why stop there when could repurpose US propagandists typical line into ‘MGT is USAID spy’.

[2015-09-07 07:34:56] <voidiss> Thanks!

[2015-09-07 07:35:31] <voidiss> Anyway, the anti-JA establishment would exploit the ‘contrast’ to smear him over and over, calling him “ambiguous and hypocrite” and inventing crap on crap.

[2015-09-07 07:39:04] <voidiss> Well, MGT has made a career — no more hidden FBI informant, but now public SENAIN whistleblower! Wow.

[2015-09-08 02:52:03] <Emmy B> Do politics matter? or how the ME war effort could unravel what we take for granted

[2015-09-08 02:58:11] <Emmy B> Expecting Greece’s ‘closest’ allies to help her make her mind up, what will it be this time? skirmishes at the Albanian or FYROM border? Yet another hot incident around Agathonisi/Farmakonisi on the pretext of refugee rescue operations a naval standoff involving the death of innocent refugees? All eyes on the Greek interim government, can it hop and dance and walk on the unforgiving diplomatic rope?

[2015-09-08 03:13:09] <Emmy B> [Media-image] Οπα! Opa! traditional dancing steps includes jumping on air hahaha which I think is currently required 🙂

[2015-09-08 03:36:26] <noll> “Germany could take 500,000 people per annum for years” – no offence to Germany or human nature, but this is insanely dangerous. still waiting for one person in MSM-land to have read sociology of *EU-wide* holocaust.

[2015-09-08 03:54:46] <noll> Em, Assad having bad week, M5 highway threatened, Kafarya & al-Fu’ah besiege – by al-Nusra, by ISIS, Putin calls elections (in Syria, v. zero bullshit) & begins taking steps to bolster regime militarily. so, just what does US/ NATO think will happen if Assad falls – for a start w/ those numbers of refugees?

[2015-09-08 04:03:04] <Emmy B> Yes, no one really cares for the people of Syria full stop and what is going down there and soon on our streets is the madhouse that the US and allies ME policy have dreamed up and execute no matter what. Assad has been made irrelevant once the darling of UK he became the excuse.

[2015-09-08 04:11:10] <Emmy B> For me it also expresses a counter wave of authoritarianism against the Arab Spring. No more smoother than in Egypt where at least they are not been slaughtered and bombed, the army has finished with Mubarak regime and has found another client in the current regime. In Syria a wave for more democracy usurped by foreign actors and local factions seeking power at all costs. But really it has ended up in a mess of colonial dimensions.

[2015-09-08 04:15:18] <Emmy B> (cannot help but think that Ottoman massacres in the Peloponese, when riots happened they simply cleared whole regions through slaughter (survivors would become refugees) and then they would re-populate the area from another part of the empire.

[2015-09-08 04:15:57] <Emmy B> that is why I say of colonial dimensions)

[2015-09-08 04:18:09] <Emmy B> In Bahrain, the Saudis invaded, Libya disintegrated to barbarism, what remains of the Arab Spring?

[2015-09-08 05:34:22] <noll> Em, what remains, nothing. perhaps time for democracy in Syria was long before, not after. re FIO, Google translate: “There does not exist any compilation of the Prosecution’s total costs for the case.”

[2015-09-08 05:43:04] <noll> @nickhopkinsnews expression as JA read out “children of Thatcher” cable.. picture worth a thousand wordss etc.

[2015-09-08 05:44:21] <noll> *words

[2015-09-08 09:02:18] <Emmy B> maybe what remains of the Arab Spring is a stronger, more complete and more Arab …dream 🙂 a horizon to try and reach again in the future, better planned this time.

[2015-09-08 09:10:37] <noll>

[2015-09-08 09:11:08] <noll> which is also down to Turkey?

[2015-09-08 09:26:31] <WikiLeaks> Turkey, Saudi, Qatar, Israel all want a piece of Syria.

[2015-09-08 09:28:09] <WikiLeaks> Once the government collapses the Turks will occupy it from the north, israel will cement its control over Goland and likely expand a buffer zone.

[2015-09-08 10:19:33] <Emmy B> This is simply the worst news for the region and my country and Cyprus it is a disaster. With Israel now a ‘strategic defence partner’ for both countries, (since the supposedly alienation of Turkey and Israel) and Israel an active player in gas exploration in Cyprus fields, their common military interests will drive them back in each others arms. If Turkey legitimises its hold in Cyprus which will allow her to expand its military bases there, (40,000 troops already there) it will be a springboard for military expansion beyond what can be imagined. The West is weaving chaos but others will benefit.

[2015-09-08 10:37:20] <noll> agree Wls. the C4 JA interview was really great. is there going to be a ‘complete’ version posted? at moment Arab Spring bit is ‘obscured’ (thought BBC had exclusive on that technique).

[2015-09-08 13:13:38] <noll> C$ interview w/o audio problems posted:

[2015-09-08 13:13:49] <noll> *C4

[2015-09-08 13:17:14] <Emmy B> thanks for sharing! 🙂

[2015-09-08 17:46:48] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-09-08 17:47:47] <noll> is there a link to unofficial BBC livestream?

[2015-09-09 03:46:06] <voidiss> LOL, funny article on Luke Harding’s desperate attempts to depict himself as an “enemy of the state”:

[2015-09-09 03:47:22] <voidiss> And here is the full video of Going Underground interview:

[2015-09-09 04:49:06] <noll> Greta, you can get glimpse of FSB psychological profile of Harding via type of gaslighting used – ie. he’s an Oxford simpleton. likely only a few theatrical skits, home triggers used, the rest was left to Harding’s absurd willingness to play the game. deniability of these techniques (usually targets that speak out are called insane rather than stupid) means they’re used *all the time, from families, groups, communities, businesses, govts, (v. often used against whistleblowers) but while it’s a nature form of attack, it’s also a powerful technology of social control that has been revolutionised since 1950s. but no one writes about its modern forms – which is interesting b/c when married to surveillance technologies it’s the stuff of nightmares.

[2015-09-09 04:49:58] <noll> *natural form of

[2015-09-09 04:51:04] <noll>

[2015-09-09 04:54:01] <noll> asked Greenwald via Twitter whether instances Zersetzung in Snowden files, he said he didn’t answer questions about contents – & then answered 3 other questions on contents over 30 mins.

[2015-09-09 07:08:39] <noll> // worth noting MGT used these techniques w/i WLF, either in a natural sense – he’s a sociopath/ derives gratification from harming others, or as part of an op – in which case he’s a sociopath/ derives gratification from harming others.

[2015-09-09 07:11:39] <noll> add gratification from controlling/ manipulating others.

[2015-09-09 07:12:52] <M> Cynthia McKinney (former US Rep, activist) discusses using, then being forced to remove, WikiLeaks documents in her PhD dissertation.

[2015-09-09 08:03:00] <Emmy B> @ H I agree regarding MGT, read your resource and was the first thought that entered my mind.

[2015-09-09 08:07:06] <noll> Thx Em. this is great: Britain look like an oh-so-civilised mafia state – George Monbiot

[2015-09-09 08:12:50] <Emmy B> @ M just watched the video, what a lovely lady, her message loud and clear! 🙂

[2015-09-09 08:18:07] <Emmy B> @ H *like very much*

[2015-09-09 09:09:12] <Emmy B> The corn is fabulous this year 🙂

[2015-09-09 09:09:26] <Emmy B>

[2015-09-09 10:48:36] <M> Jason Leopold requested docs from Hillary’s aides re WikiLeaks, CIA, Occupy etc – State Dept in response requested delay on release until 2016.

[2015-09-09 10:54:44] <M> WaPo’s Colby Itkowitz has made correction in her article, now references asylum + US threat.

[2015-09-09 19:11:26] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-09-09 19:40:11] <noll> Sebastian Faulks interview, last section:

[2015-09-09 20:02:10] <noll> Faulks is wrong, Beethoven was needed to survive climate change:

[2015-09-09 20:12:15] <noll> ie, to survive extremes = extremes, clearly incl. creativity.

[2015-09-10 15:09:29] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-09-10 15:42:44] <noll> “For example, the Quito-based free expression group Fundamedios received about $280,000 from USAID in 2011”

[2015-09-10 17:23:49] <noll>

[2015-09-10 17:44:31] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-09-11 03:19:32] <voidiss> Hazelpress, your Western parallel should be explained to many journalists covering this issue right now; they would understand how absurd the situation is and why Ecuador govt is not so willing to deal with Fundamedios. I mean, you can’t consider it a unbiased media NGO campaigning for free speech — it is just backing US govt interests. Not that it’s not right highlighting abuses in Ecuador, but Fundamedios isn’t really the organization which should do this.

[2015-09-11 03:19:49] <voidiss> [Media-image] Moreover, Hazelpress, I’ve read only now your articles about psychological mnipulation and it’s tremendously scaring. Those tactics partially reminds me of GCHQ psychological operations:

[2015-09-11 03:20:38] <voidiss> Oh, the Tory plan to scrap the Human Rights Act will be presented soon:

[2015-09-11 06:06:27] <Bean> [Tweet]

[2015-09-11 07:26:33] <noll> [Tweet] of interest re left:

[2015-09-11 08:06:41] <Emmy B>

[2015-09-11 08:07:00] <Emmy B> Julian Assange Streaming Live at The Wheeler Centre

[2015-09-11 12:55:13] <voidiss> Very interesting related to the Fundamedios issue:

[2015-09-11 13:40:45] <Emmy B> thanks for sharing 🙂

[2015-09-11 13:56:27] <Emmy B>

[2015-09-11 13:56:46] <Emmy B> Lawmakers Welcome Whistleblowers As DoD Probes Cooked Intel

[2015-09-11 13:57:00] <Emmy B> Important!

[2015-09-11 14:00:41] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-09-11 14:02:24] <Emmy B> heh the politicisation of Intelligence, an anathema for true national sec…

[2015-09-11 14:02:49] <Emmy B> “running amok”? Yes they are.

[2015-09-11 14:26:11] <M> Speaking of pseudo feminism, this story is idiotic.

[2015-09-11 14:31:55] <WikiLeaks> Jesus.

[2015-09-11 14:45:09] <WikiLeaks> That’s an extremely mild and very polite flirtation.

[2015-09-11 14:47:46] <voidiss> Oh. My. God. We’re really reaching absurd levels. As the article says, there’s a mad urge to find ‘offences’ everywhere.

[2015-09-11 14:47:56] <voidiss> Yes, sexism is widespread, in some environments more that others, but this is absolutely not the case, and especially, didn’t justified the public smear.

[2015-09-11 14:49:51] <M> Anything a man says is inherently sexist, doncha know.

[2015-09-11 15:12:25] <voidiss> Another article related to USAID-paid NGOs in Latin America:

[2015-09-11 15:28:42] <WISE Up Action> The casual ageism certainly doesn’t assist her case! Wtf has ‘half your age’ got to do wit it??

[2015-09-11 15:33:21] <voidiss> A consequence of social conventions for which flirtation shouldn’t occur if there’s a significant age difference. Wrong, in my opinion.

[2015-09-12 00:39:30] <Emmy B> hahaaha I would rather had ‘stunning’ than ‘creepy’ comment about my poor Avatar eye any time from all ages men or women hahahaha the lawyer is very silly but enjoys the power of her game.

[2015-09-12 00:40:55] <Emmy B> Just an example of the politicisation of human relations and the need to box in types of relationships (i.e. professional) which is kind of alienating….

[2015-09-12 00:44:50] <Emmy B> yes, I don’t want to have unwanted attention in my work place or being denied the chance to manage the company’s truck fleet because ‘we didn’t want you to have to deal with the drivers’ as I have been once told 15 years ago but on the other hand we bring our whole self into the work place don’t we?

[2015-09-12 02:47:23] <voidiss> About Special Ops JCETs abroad and how they collide with human rights:

[2015-09-12 04:58:20] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-09-12 05:00:02] <Emmy B> A ray of hope

[2015-09-12 05:01:09] <Emmy B> Maybe it is not a bad thing that Corbyn has adversaries and I hope they are as vocal as possible so they eventually get ze boot 🙂

[2015-09-12 05:10:41] <Emmy B> Talented street photographer @memster1 has left twitter moving onto different projects, we shall miss his work at the vigil and his presence. He is off work and looking to change his life.

[2015-09-12 05:58:47] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-09-12 06:08:16] <voidiss> Oh, here is Nick Cohen a few days ago, engaged as usual in a smearing article against Corbyn. Hardly surprising.

[2015-09-12 06:08:26] <voidiss> Just the start of the article is discourages the read. “Corbyn does not believe in the human rights of “us all”. He is concerned only with the rights of those whose oppression is politically useful. If the oppressed’s suffering can be blamed on the West, he will defend them. If not, he is on their enemies’ side.”

[2015-09-12 06:08:43] <voidiss> *without is

[2015-09-12 06:09:03] <voidiss> Curious how he uses a similar tactic as with JA smearing: claiming Corbyn is anti-West and willing to aid oppression if it comes from non-Westerners.

[2015-09-12 06:10:04] <voidiss> (Sad to hear about Mem. I hope he will be okay, anyway!)

[2015-09-12 06:21:14] <noll> JC a “serious risk to our nation’s security” says enthusiastic Iraq war criminal:

[2015-09-12 06:25:11] <voidiss> They’re freaking out.

[2015-09-12 06:51:16] <voidiss> I think the term “Corbynmania” can be seen as a preparation for the “political contagion” label. Worth noting Hague using it a few weeks ago:

[2015-09-12 06:51:34] <voidiss> What do you mean with “diminishing returns”?

[2015-09-12 08:24:18] <Emmy B> remember syriza division through forced compromise, compromising one’s value

[2015-09-12 08:24:28] <Emmy B> values

[2015-09-12 09:05:40] <noll> [Media-image] bit of talk on Twitter re Tory “off the chain right” hysteria (all v. reminiscent of attack upon JA).

[2015-09-12 09:10:12] <noll> [Media-image] anyway, ironically this prop art proved correct, but only w/ the help of 98.6% of available Tories.

[2015-09-12 09:11:04] <Emmy B> Yes I agree totally, there is though one very big difference regarding Corbyn. He is now an elected representative head of the opposition party and if the Tories attack it may hopefully encourage those within the Labour who are decent to defend the party and at last do their job ie OPPOSE the government 🙂

[2015-09-12 09:15:26] <noll> forgot to add link:

[2015-09-12 09:25:24] <Emmy B> You know it will be delightful just to hear such political views and humanistic views in public.

[2015-09-12 09:27:26] <Emmy B> wherever I go I mostly feel that the most natural and humane ideas about peace and solidarity, about helping others and a more humane attitude in society away from competing on ‘the rat race’ and living in collaborate ways are just absent from the political vocabulary

[2015-09-12 09:31:19] <voidiss> Yes, completely absent, and this article – even if different on subject and presenting an already-well-known attitudes of politicians – shows it perfectly:

[2015-09-12 09:31:22] <voidiss> Corbyn’s victory is a hope and I really wish he will keep the line he has shown by now. It could change many things. And seeing him at the demonstration right after the victory is telling.

[2015-09-12 09:32:06] <voidiss> [Tweet] Obviously the presentation Guardian offers isn’t really the best ‘good luck’ wishes they could give.

[2015-09-12 09:33:58] <Emmy B> I note JC mentions the Vienna Convention, the rights of Asylum.

[2015-09-12 09:34:20] <Emmy B> At Parliament square today

[2015-09-12 09:50:37] <Emmy B> Yes! It is a better day today 🙂

[2015-09-12 10:00:40] <WISE Up Action>

[2015-09-12 10:27:49] <voidiss> [Tweet]

[2015-09-12 12:45:03] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-09-12 14:17:59] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-09-12 16:09:17] <noll>

[2015-09-13 04:29:41] <voidiss> About the recent drone strikes in Syria:

[2015-09-13 05:44:26] <Emmy B> Thank you very much for recent postings, certainly highlight hypocrisy on both occasions: how can it ever be acceptable that donations are made by the coffers of one government for work by MP’s of another country? how can this MP not be described as ‘a foreign agent’?

[2015-09-13 05:50:12] <Emmy B> Equally, with UK’s UN submission, an act of clear aggression against another country, in that country’s sovereign soil, is ‘baptised’ into self defence and mentioning the octogenarian Queen to create understandable offence domestically crossing that red line in the English mind ‘these ppl our gov droned to death are traitors’. To quote my friend ‘if they planned to kill the queen they did right to kill them’.

[2015-09-13 07:39:51] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet] FYI

[2015-09-13 07:40:31] <Emmy B> Thanks for sharing Wise Up <3

[2015-09-13 08:41:02] <Emmy B> Returning to earlier comments regarding application of pressure on Greece to agree to block Russian aircraft from its FIR, I alluded to National security incidents surrounding Farmakonisi/Agathonisi (Turkey for decades tries to dispute Greek sovereignty over these islands – see Wikileaks cables for US role as mediator) to create ‘Grey/disputed zones’ in the Aegean. I mentioned earlier staged tragedies involving refugees…Sadly today many drowned in the very area. The capsizing under ‘mysterious circumstances’ according to a Greek publication. Article in English:

[2015-09-13 08:49:09] <Emmy B> previously:

[2015-09-13 09:14:55] <voidiss> Oh, fuck. It’s damn frightening, this is precisely what you were talking about. The incident described in the second link could have been caused by Turkey, which then rescued the refugees to make it seem that it was Greece’s fault.

[2015-09-13 09:15:00] <voidiss> And about the drone strikes… the difference between the version given by Cameron and by the letter to UN is telling and should make people wonder. It’s like they don’t know which excuse to invent and they refine it day after day, just to fool everyone better.

[2015-09-13 09:17:40] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-09-13 09:29:20] <voidiss> [Tweet] This article about refugees is great.

[2015-09-13 10:34:20] <noll> it’s good, but as slanted as you’d expect from article uncritically citing WSJ/ Fox etc. ie. the carefully selected BBC report is from 15 March – it was 16 March alleged torture of students that set the protest movement aflame, & the breathless “Wikileaks cables reveal CIA involvement” links to RT article which hides the fact that it is reporting on a US-backed cable station that no one watches & Assad opposition is too terrified to make a go of (

[2015-09-13 10:54:18] <noll> correction – it’s 18 March (after Friday prayers) that protests begin to expand:

[2015-09-13 11:13:55] <Emmy B> In Greece we all celebrate proudly the day of oxi = no (1940 – WWII). It was not actually said as such but this is how it remains in history… as a ‘no you cannot pass your armies into Greece through the Albanian border Mussolini, we shall fight’. Together with the slight distortion of history (the word ‘no’ never was said, although Greece did not acquiesce to the Italian army advance and fought) most Greeks forget that Metaxas, the politician in charge of Greece at the time was a brutal dictator. He was a confirmed fascist who propagated everything that Mussolini and Hitler propagated albeit in a ancient Greek toga intellectual ‘garment’. Assad equally is a political dictator albeit considering the plurality of religions and nations within Syria, he is also the ‘tribal chief’ of the Allawites. Forgive me I am hardly an expert in matters Syrian but there is no doubt in my mind the Greeks would rather have Metaxa the dictator than Mussolini the dictator. I think most people can understand why. Mussolini too had a plan to split Greece into parts and in fact during the 4 years of occupation Greece was split into three parts The Italian, The German, The Bulgarian. Out of all three the Bulgarian was considered the most barbaric as ethnic cleansing was part of the agenda to truly expand Bulgaria giving it access into the Aegean. The current problems between Greece and FYROM or Macedonia over the name stem from that period of Bulgarian occupation when the occupiers (Bulgarians) to consolidate their rule and cement it for the future created the ‘greater Macedonia’ claiming it as a separate state, nation, in fact, and starting to manufacture the historic revisionism so helpful in propaganda. If the occupation had lasted longer than 4 years the map of Greece would today be very different. FYROM to this day includes in its national constitution a commitment to ‘liberate’ those historic lands that are currently under foreign control… all this referring to ‘the Greater Macedonian Myth’ created by Bulgarians in the 40’s. Forgive me the rather long dive into Greek history but I think it says a parallel story.

[2015-09-13 11:20:24] <Emmy B> Whilst in Greece it was the German colonialism that offered the Umbrella for all the land grab, in Syria it is American colonialism.

[2015-09-13 11:21:09] <Emmy B> It is shocking maybe to consider that both democratic and fascist ideologies can produce colonialism

[2015-09-13 11:21:42] <Emmy B> but then you can blame it on the Athenians (the first Democracy)

[2015-09-13 11:23:44] <Emmy B> Democracy in Syria has a future, but as it is at the moment the state may not survive… who knows but let’s take a look at this headline and agree that it could easily be about Syria:

[2015-09-13 13:12:14] <Emmy B> ‘bairns not bombs’ & Corbyn’s doctrines might finally become the soft language under which a political reality coming home to roost (refugee waves into EU) becomes a foreign policy changer for Syria?

[2015-09-13 13:24:00] <Emmy B> Today is reported that Merkel said the Greeks should do a better job in guarding the EU’s external borders. A little too late, comes the realisation that indeed Greece is a border fortress. But interestingly NATO’s Greek military plan, executed at the cost of the Greek tax payer has been mainly deployed for an eminent USSR attack and not by an attack military or otherwise from any other direction. If the poor dingies can cross from Turkey to the Greek islands so easily, imagine how quickly modern military vessels can cross over and of course they trespass daily, who in EU has ever cared? I do hope that Isis does not spread into Turkey (God forbid they feed the monster, can they control it?) or else ‘island hopping’ the dream of every EU travelling teenager will acquire a very different meaning.

[2015-09-13 15:45:24] <voidiss> Thank you so much for all these interesting information and thoughts about Syria! Emmy, also very interesting your parallel with Greece at the time of WWII — Vico would say “occurrences and recurrences of history”.

[2015-09-13 17:42:51] <M> This is bizarre.

[2015-09-13 19:47:37] <noll> that is bizarre.. not to mention graphics are decades old.

[2015-09-13 19:51:57] <M> It’s made using only Javascript and WebGL, so actually rather impressive.

[2015-09-14 01:25:31] <voidiss> Flashback writes down some thoughts and points regarding the Assange case, precisely about Ny’s “laziness”:

[2015-09-14 02:22:44] <voidiss> Two journalists guildes denounces Fundamedios’ bias and back govt decision to close it:

[2015-09-14 02:25:22] <voidiss> Yes, it’s wrong that in Ecuador there’s a law which prevents journalists from intervening in political matters.

[2015-09-14 02:25:38] <voidiss> But in this case we’re not talking about genuine information about government opposition, but about intentional destabilization.

[2015-09-14 02:25:45] <voidiss> “Fundamedios only promoted the freedom of expression for certain institutions”, as the two guildes say.

[2015-09-14 03:15:53] <Emmy B> good stuff 🙂

[2015-09-14 05:25:30] <Emmy B> [Tweet]

[2015-09-14 05:27:56] <Emmy B> The link can no longer be found in the tweet but the article survives in the wayback machine

[2015-09-14 05:28:18] <Emmy B>

[2015-09-14 05:30:39] <Emmy B> for some reason I cannot archive the waybackmachine record on

[2015-09-14 05:32:24] <Emmy B> There is also a video of this speech here:

[2015-09-14 05:33:27] <Emmy B> Published on: May 03, 2011

Speech Given to Sydney University Law School, 31 March 2011

[2015-09-14 05:34:09] <Emmy B> Reflections on WikiLeaks, Spycatcher and Freedom of the Press

[2015-09-14 05:35:32] <Emmy B> sorry not video but an audio recording

[2015-09-14 05:45:27] <Emmy B> there are slight differences between the article and the podcast, the latter being (I think in a language and tone) more supportive of JA

[2015-09-14 05:46:20] <Emmy B> I quote ” Sarah Palin, possibly the next US President, called for him to be pursued “with the same urgency we pursue al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders.” No doubt her supporters were able to read what they liked into that remark.

While Assange is no doubt quite safe from assassination, when an Australian citizen is threatened in this way, an Australian Prime Minister should respond.”

[2015-09-14 05:47:29] <Emmy B> let’s hope MT is a man of his word 🙂 shame the article and podcast is no longer in his website, unless they have been moved in a different URL inside it.

[2015-09-14 05:59:31] <Emmy B> of course any efforts to potentially assist JA from Oz for MT to keep face could be potentially sabotaged by the High Commissioner Alexander Downer, notorious in my book, let’s hope JA’s Oz legal representation try their hand directly with the new PM in Oz.

[2015-09-14 06:22:41] <Bean> sorry to disappoint but MT is certainly not a man of his word – he’s a multimillionaire career politician – just one example:

[2015-09-14 06:24:06] <Bean> he’s smarter than abbott which just makes him more dangerous – and possibly electable

[2015-09-14 06:29:08] <Emmy B> Thanks for the resources Bean 🙂 good to know, I have no particular knowledge of who is who in Australian politics. His expressed views regarding JA/WL as expressed in the podcast lecture to Sydney Uni is widely differentiated than other Australian politicians. In particular I am not aware that anyone has ever given a Uni lecture on the matter so in that respect he may find it hard to publicly retract all 41 minutes of it.

[2015-09-14 06:30:37] <voidiss> [Tweet] MT’s statement is surely rather positive; even if he didn’t approve WL’s action completely, he seemed to care about protection for JA about assassinations. But… this is what @garymlord thinks about those MT’s words:

[2015-09-14 06:31:32] <voidiss> Also, given what Bean has just said and comparing it with how Australiam MSM are depicting him, there’s a discordance:

[2015-09-14 06:32:54] <Emmy B> Having successfully defended the publication of Spycatcher (am I right?) matters of press freedom/freedom of expression and the law have been linked to his professional career (i.e. things he is proud of and added to his professional/political standing) He is not reached the highest office without getting his hands dirty so he will certainly put political expediency above other matters, still threes a wind of change and he may want to play his own tune.

[2015-09-14 06:39:55] <Emmy B> He is hardly condoning of WL anyway only that to me at least it is clear he considers their actions to be journalistic and they should not be prosecuted/persecuted. He also criticises US for doing so.

[2015-09-14 06:45:13] <Bean> would he still do this in power? – i’m sceptical – haven’t time to expand or find decent material on him at the moment (sorry!) – but my impression of him over the years is as a very slippery character – a cunning manipulator

[2015-09-14 06:47:34] <voidiss> I’ve found another earlier piece in which we talks about WikiLeaks disclosure, immediately after the release of the Cablegate:

[2015-09-14 08:06:42] <Emmy B> Let’s watch what he does then. I don’t follow Australian politics other what comes into my timeline, why was Abbot ousted…?

[2015-09-14 08:24:45] <Bean> so unpopular now he would lose the next election – seen as mismanaging economy (amongst other things) as the australian economy slides due to too many eggs in the chinese resources market basket (try repeating that fast!)…the usual internal factional battles within the liberal party (not that they have ‘official’ factions like labor)…abbott knifed turnbull in the back to get leadership when in opposition (by one vote in 2009) so payback time… turnbull has had his eye on being pm for years and the time was right to roll abbott – now gives them chance to win next election with a new (old) face – turnbull has credibility in eyes of many liberal Liberal voters… that’s my quick and crude analysis!

[2015-09-14 08:26:32] <Emmy B> Thank you!!! 🙂

[2015-09-14 08:26:54] <noll> it’s good news re climate change action :o) “Turnbull hit the airwaves, declaring he would not back down or resign, and that the Liberal party would be annihilated if it took a “do nothing” position on climate change. Echoing Prime Minister Rudd, he warned that taking no action on climate change risked “the future of our planet and the future of our children and their children”

[2015-09-14 08:29:11] <Emmy B> Let’s hope so!

[2015-09-14 08:30:32] <Emmy B> Does anyone know ‘WikiLeaks Bot @wikileakBot’ it RTs the trolls as well as others.

[2015-09-14 08:31:56] <M> Well it’s a bot, so it seems it is set to RT any tweet mentioning “wikileaks” that gets over x amount of retweets.

[2015-09-14 08:37:47] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-09-14 08:38:13] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-09-14 08:39:43] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-09-14 08:41:04] <Emmy B> I will tweet my troll list to them to see if they respond but not so hopeful as I have tweeted at them before with no result.

[2015-09-14 08:42:42] <M> Right. It’s a bot, so it runs without user interaction.

[2015-09-14 08:48:15] <Emmy B> There is no point then tweeting at them. ok, I will just block them 🙂

[2015-09-14 08:58:15] <noll> [Tweet] well, that optimism lasted long..

[2015-09-14 08:58:24] <voidiss> For now Turnbull has said “no changes” on the current climate change policy, and even said that Abbott government’s “climate policy is one that has been very well designed, a very, very good piece of work”. But this article (and the cable you cited, Haz) offer an optimistic view:

[2015-09-14 08:59:15] <voidiss> Oh. There.

[2015-09-14 09:19:38] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-09-14 09:30:52] <noll>

[2015-09-14 09:38:00] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-09-14 09:41:16] <voidiss> Oh, god. No decency at all.

[2015-09-14 09:44:15] <noll> [Tweet] apparently could be building next door, either way, just perfect tone setting for the evening news hit pieces.

[2015-09-14 09:59:32] <voidiss> Another lapdog country dealing with the extradition to US of another internet fighter:

[2015-09-14 10:20:34] <noll> media clockwork:

[2015-09-14 10:30:44] <voidiss> Ah, Hazelpress, regarding when you said that would be useful to know when the idea of reviewing Chapter 19 in the Swedish Penal Code was first brought up in Swedish govt, in case the date is near to August 10… This is the PDF of the proposal:

[2015-09-14 20:24:42] <noll> new BBC adaptation – if anything these repulsive caricatures are hopelessly understated, the truth would be too unbelievable:

[2015-09-14 20:33:47] <noll> Greta, understood, it’s to do w/ joining NATO in all but name:

[2015-09-14 23:13:24] <voidiss> Agree. And all the recent statements by Swedish govt in this period about strenghten coop w/ NATO are a further confirmation.

[2015-09-15 01:53:49] <Bean> FYI – Malcolm Turnbull: no changes to climate change policy

[2015-09-15 02:03:02] <Emmy B> All good information, thank you! How is he going to differentiate himself from previous PM ?

[2015-09-15 02:08:47] <Bean> He’s ‘Not-Tony’ – doubt if there will be much more substantial difference. And he’s a more proficient con artist.

[2015-09-15 02:15:22] <Emmy B> 🙂

[2015-09-15 02:16:05] <Emmy B> Watching:

[2015-09-15 03:08:05] <Bean> last word on turnbull ‘coup’ from first dog sums it up: “We have gone from having an angry babbling man-sized toddler as a Prime Minister to a smug and glossy merchant banker”

[2015-09-15 03:10:32] <WikiLeaks> That’s right.

[2015-09-15 03:11:14] <WikiLeaks> With a daughter in law whose father brought Ikea to China.

[2015-09-15 03:12:22] <Emmy B> a very busy family then 🙂

[2015-09-15 03:14:08] <Emmy B> and a special soft spot for things Swedish perhaps

[2015-09-15 03:15:37] <Emmy B> which is in our particular context a great shame

[2015-09-15 03:23:12] <voidiss> And, as the good “merchant banker” he is…

[2015-09-15 06:22:05] <noll> “holy fucking shit”

[2015-09-15 07:47:00] <WikiLeaks> disorder brings opportunities for those who have a comparative advantage in ordering a ability (e.g us military, state dept).

[2015-09-15 08:56:35] <WikiLeaks> It would be helpful and fun to draw the attention of Swedish diplomats and influencers to the UN statue.

[2015-09-15 09:02:40] <voidiss> Oh, you’re right. “Hey, look! The man you’re illegally detaining is being honored outside the UN!” This evening I can tweet the link to some Swedish diplomats.

[2015-09-15 09:08:39] <WikiLeaks> Great.

[2015-09-15 09:12:52] <voidiss> Meanwhile, I want to share with you all this article, which I find interesting:

[2015-09-15 11:35:51] <noll> amazing & heartbreaking historical document:

[2015-09-15 11:43:42] <M> [Tweet] Charlie Hebdo under attack again because people refuse to understand satire.

[2015-09-15 11:45:23] <WikiLeaks> Yes. That’s a good find and astute.

[2015-09-15 11:45:38] <WikiLeaks> (atlantic)

[2015-09-15 12:21:32] <Emmy B> I don’t understand satire unless it is Greek. Maybe that is why I do not appreciate these cartoons, but neither do I like to see the image of a dead child used. I understand and are moved by pictures reporting the carnage or tragedy as documenting what happened but why have so many people reproduced this image 10,000 in all kinds of ways I don’t understand why it should be acceptable. It has become a commodity for public consumption.

[2015-09-15 12:55:17] <voidiss> @fabiochiusi, an Italian journalist, has written two short comments on the issue of Aylan’s photo’s circulation in the social media. Doind so he raises some other very important and interesting points, in my opinion:

[2015-09-15 12:58:13] <voidiss> Also, I’ve listened to this Zuckerberg’s video:

[2015-09-15 14:42:27] <voidiss> Article about TPP news, secret meetings to finalize it as soon as possible and the common desire between negotiating parties to conclude it in late September:

[2015-09-16 07:48:52] <voidiss> NeoPresse’s article on an interview with JA:

[2015-09-16 08:13:04] <M> That’s a write-up of a write-up of the Going Underground interview.

[2015-09-16 08:14:01] <voidiss> Ups, I didn’t realize.

[2015-09-16 08:57:51] <Emmy B> Just so people know there is now evidence with the German Court that FWLF is owned by [redacted] wife of MGT and registered at the address that MGT lives. The French hosting co of wikileaks .com has provided documentary evidence after a French court order. Chris has been very busy over the summer and her appeal has been submitted a few weeks ago. MGT is aware of this development. Now awaiting for further legal steps but have no timeline. Please show discretion. There is no need for this information to be the subject of twitter exchanges at this stage. FWLF twitter account was suspended for a period of 10 days due to Chris’s complaint for targeted abuse. FWLF has deleted some but not all offending tweets. I personally do not expect any further news on the subject till christmas.

[2015-09-16 10:54:24] <M> [Tweet] Knowing Ai Weiwei was having an exhibit in London, I was waiting for this to happen. 🙂

[2015-09-16 11:04:21] <voidiss> Yay, super great! 😀 So nice when someone visits the Embassy, it gives the constant proof that Julian isn’t alone!

[2015-09-16 11:07:54] <Emmy B> ;-D

[2015-09-16 13:37:05] <M> Bizarre murder case involving Sweden and Greece that has gone on for nearly 15 years.

[2015-09-16 13:52:05] <Emmy B> yes

[2015-09-17 07:45:22] <WikiLeaks> Neither UN statue nor Ai Weiwei have appeared in the Swedish press, of course.

[2015-09-17 08:04:28] <voidiss> Swedish press is so unpredictable…

[2015-09-17 08:04:35] <voidiss> Anyway, article on how Swedish justice system handles rape cases when the defendant isn’t called Julian Assange:

[2015-09-17 08:29:09] <Emmy B> Many though will subscribe to Time Magazine in Sweden 🙂

[2015-09-17 08:29:14] <Emmy B>

[2015-09-17 08:29:31] <Emmy B> lovely to see JA happy 🙂

[2015-09-17 10:02:15] <M> WaPo: JA “has claimed a sort of de facto asylum”.

[2015-09-17 11:13:21] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet]

[2015-09-17 13:20:47] <voidiss> Further criticism against Fundamedios by media experts:

[2015-09-17 13:53:22] <M> WaPo corrected. Now reads “where he claimed asylum”.

[2015-09-17 19:17:28] <Emmy B> good!

[2015-09-17 23:34:46] <M> [Tweet]

[2015-09-17 23:54:22] <WISE Up Action> ‘Fans’?!

[2015-09-18 01:25:21] <voidiss> WL is a close dictatorial cult which refuses to accept criticism and Julian wants to set an image for himself and control it. Wow, nice.

[2015-09-18 04:35:35] <WikiLeaks> Morning, culties.

[2015-09-18 04:42:45] <Emmy B> ;-p

[2015-09-18 04:42:55] <Emmy B> 😀

[2015-09-18 04:44:50] <Emmy B> but the commentary did prompt me to look up an old post in my blog, such accusations of cult often used for plain and simple abuse

[2015-09-18 04:46:32] <Emmy B>

[2015-09-18 04:47:09] <Emmy B> [Media-image]

[2015-09-18 04:47:27] <Emmy B> apologies for the unpleasantness

[2015-09-18 04:51:44] <Emmy B> for a moment there I thought I read ‘cuties’ instead of ‘culties’ then WL could be accused once more of sexism hahahaha

[2015-09-18 04:53:17] <Emmy B> Goodmorning!

[2015-09-18 05:19:40] <voidiss> Oh LOL, WL! Good morning to you too, ahah!

[2015-09-18 05:19:50] <voidiss> That abusive petition is disgusting, Emmy, my god.

[2015-09-18 05:49:02] <voidiss> There is an ongoing “game under the covers” for Sweden to join NATO’s task force against Russia — as always

[2015-09-18 06:37:57] <Emmy B> 🙂 What is more disgusting Greta is the fact that more than 2500 people signed the petition in support of WL through the Avaaz system but whoever set it up was false and these signatures of support were never registered with the EU parliament. I think twice before I sign any Avaaz petition since. If it used as an instrument of fraud with no accountability on behalf of Avaaz then what sort of political democratic platform is it?

[2015-09-18 06:48:26] <WikiLeaks> We hear from a parliamentarian in Norway that there is last minute tension in the Nobel Peace Prize committee between a Snowden-Assange-Manning triumvirate vs 2nd prize to Obama.

[2015-09-18 06:49:10] <Emmy B> The very best of Luck! <3

[2015-09-18 06:59:42] <voidiss> Wow! This’d be amazing, good luck! And also it’d be a funny shot agst Obama – think of his shock knowing he has lost the prize b/cos of you!

[2015-09-18 07:01:09] <voidiss> Emmy, yes, I understand your point and you’re right. It surprises me, I thought Avaaz was a pretty good and reliable org.

[2015-09-18 07:01:12] <voidiss> Sad to know the contrary.

[2015-09-18 07:30:35] <WikiLeaks> Avaaz and all such petition systems are scams.

[2015-09-18 07:30:45] <WikiLeaks> Highly profitable scams.

[2015-09-18 07:31:34] <WikiLeaks> They place their credit card donation buttons next to the petition. People have the false impression that they are donating to the cause of the petition, but they’re just donating to Avaaz et al.

[2015-09-18 07:32:14] <WikiLeaks> They stalk mediagenic issues to pull in people to that killing zone.

[2015-09-18 07:33:37] <WikiLeaks> We hear that they give/sell their lists to the US democrats. If you look closely at the Avaaz privacy policy, at least as it was a few years ago, you can see that type of thing is not excluded.

[2015-09-18 07:36:15] <WikiLeaks> They had a 750k strong petition to free JA. We spoke to them at the highest level about the possibility of emailing those people with a WL announcement on some issue (e.g manning trial), which they did not. So they collected a very large list of people that would have been critical to our fight, but only used it for their own purposes.

[2015-09-18 07:37:25] <Emmy B> yes I also send them an e-mail about it but they ignored me.

[2015-09-18 07:38:14] <Emmy B>

[2015-09-18 07:39:21] <Emmy B> Thanks for this insight! I have always wondered about that petition.

[2015-09-18 07:39:40] <Emmy B> But there is something of a worry because….

[2015-09-18 07:40:47] <Emmy B> they are now seen as a platform for progressives in the UK for example to launch political action… give me a minute to find the link so that I explain better….

[2015-09-18 07:42:35] <Emmy B> see here:

[2015-09-18 07:43:17] <voidiss> Oh. Thank you very much for the info. Great, I add Avaaz to the already-long list of crappy orgs.

[2015-09-18 07:43:50] <voidiss> If I think it’s been one of the first platforms I used to inform myself abt impo issues before knowing WL a few years ago, I want to vomit.

[2015-09-18 07:44:00] <voidiss> Anyway, I agree with Emmy. Not just in the UK — also in Italy many people see it as a good platform.

[2015-09-18 07:44:04] <voidiss> And in fact I was advised to read some of their campaigns by a number of teachers here.

[2015-09-18 07:44:18] <Emmy B>

[2015-09-18 07:45:00] <Emmy B>

[2015-09-18 07:46:51] <Emmy B> Basically Caroline Lucas campaign was joined by Russel Brand’s initiative via Avaaz who EMBEDDED the UK parliament petition into their Avaaz Petition and sent it to their 1.1 UK e-mails.

[2015-09-18 07:47:49] <Emmy B> quote” Alice Jay, Avaaz campaign director, said: ” This petition shows people want politicians to step up and change Britain’s disastrous drug laws.” unquote

[2015-09-18 07:50:33] <Emmy B> So, Avaaz 1. Collects donations, 2. Collects our data, 3.’stalk mediagenic issues to pull in people to that killing zone’ 4. Sells our data 5. Enters the political arena influencing UK legislative Policy 6. sells itself to politicians as a political player…isn’t this the realm of political lobbying or am I wrong?

[2015-09-18 07:53:40] <Emmy B> The WL example of that petition is very telling as Avaaz on this occasion used WL’s reach (the petition was promoted via WL FB page (at the time of ‘the Siggi/MGT partnership’ to mention a sore point) to get to add into their database.

[2015-09-18 07:56:24] <Emmy B> another lesson learnt

[2015-09-18 08:03:16] <Emmy B> And have they ever made a petition about Manning? I am going to check this…

[2015-09-18 08:03:51] <Emmy B> But I recall they did one for Snowden the one run by David Miranda…hang on…

[2015-09-18 08:05:05] <Emmy B> yes, here it is:

[2015-09-18 08:06:02] <Emmy B> I remember because I was asked by an activist friend to translate it to Greek and they forwarded it to their network of contacts in Greece, e-mail lists etc.

[2015-09-18 08:06:30] <Emmy B> How easily are we duped as public?

[2015-09-18 08:11:25] <voidiss> Yes, they did one about Manning in 2010/11, this link is in Italian:

[2015-09-18 08:12:04] <voidiss> ‘Another lesson learnt”: absolutely yes.

[2015-09-18 08:17:13] <Emmy B> So what does the petition say Greta and did they submit it to a public organisation in support of Manning?

[2015-09-18 08:23:26] <Emmy B> how do you know the date Greta, I don’t see it mentioned… curious…

[2015-09-18 08:29:54] <Emmy B> it says : ‘Sign the petition: our message will be delivered through a poster impact and strong actions in Washington DC as soon as we reach 250,000 signatures.’ were there posters put up in Washington? and what strong actions were taken I wonder….

[2015-09-18 09:04:19] <Emmy B> Nobel peace prize 2015

[2015-09-18 09:33:19] <voidiss> Sorry, I was out.

[2015-09-18 09:33:38] <voidiss> Anyway, I’ve found the same petition link in English here:

[2015-09-18 09:34:05] <voidiss> I know it is from 2010/2011 b/cos I saw it in that period, I received the email (I followed Avaaz newsletter, as I said).

[2015-09-18 09:34:47] <voidiss> After that email I didn’t personally see new developments, but it may have been due to my inability to inform myself properly at the time.

[2015-09-18 09:34:59] <voidiss> At the top of that article they claimed Manning was moved to a less strict prison thanks to their petition and the 500.000 signatures.

[2015-09-18 09:35:16] <voidiss> But I’ve searched a bit online and I have found no links about protests in Washington DC for Manning organized by Avaaz.

[2015-09-18 09:35:47] <voidiss> Also on Manning support website they recognized the big amount of support the initiative had raised, but said

[2015-09-18 09:35:47] <Emmy B> thank you Greta!

[2015-09-18 09:36:02] <voidiss> “according to the site the petition will be delivered to Washington etc etc”,

[2015-09-18 09:36:06] <voidiss> not that it has actually been delivered:

[2015-09-18 09:38:13] <Emmy B> hmmm

[2015-09-18 09:49:33] <Emmy B> Avaaz risk taking in Syria is unprecedent

[2015-09-18 09:52:11] <M> On Avaaz, from Jillian C York: “They are not a 501(c)(3) (non-profit) organization, rather, they are a 501(c)(4), the classification of organization that can lobby, engage in political campaigns, and don’t have to name their major donors. To put this in perspective, the 501(c)(4) designation applies to PACs[.]”

[2015-09-18 09:54:41] <WikiLeaks> Jesus. And they say WikiLeaks has blood on its hands.

[2015-09-18 10:06:39] <M> But apparently Avaaz lied about their scope of involvement in that!

[2015-09-18 10:08:49] <Emmy B> corruption then through and through?

[2015-09-18 10:55:14] <Emmy B> I thought at the time I had that experience with the JA petition turned tool of abuse, that I could make Avaaz reveal who done it, the e-mail and IP addresses would have been enough but the only thing they did do is to de-publish the petition, then no action, no answers.

[2015-09-18 11:05:24] <Emmy B> I read in their terms and conditions that I would need a court order or a police order to get them to reveal who manipulated the petition, in the US probably…I thought it would be too complicated and expensive. So after several e-mails and phone calls to their UK media guys I gave up.

[2015-09-18 11:31:33] <Emmy B> Re Avaaz, here it is said it was created by moveOn that fundraised for Obama:

[2015-09-18 11:32:25] <Emmy B> it says it attended The Syrian Opposition Antalya conference

[2015-09-18 11:33:11] <Emmy B> that called for the overthrow of Assad:

[2015-09-18 11:35:39] <Emmy B> What is MoveOn

[2015-09-18 11:39:42] <Emmy B> ‘In 2007, Moveon was a co-founder of Avaaz, a similar organization with an international focus.’

[2015-09-18 11:45:25] <Emmy B> So clearly they have a US political campaigning background and they split their service into three areas, 1. Petition Campaigning of their own volition, 2. Petition services open to all members (I think one has to pay to have their petition circulate within the Avaaz e-mail list) 3. Action on the ground including Extra ordinary activities eg camera’s and medical aid to Syrian opposition.

[2015-09-18 11:46:11] <Emmy B> I wonder who was the european partner mentioned in the article.

[2015-09-18 11:48:18] <Emmy B> Also, now that we know about what GCHQ are up to regarding manipulation of public opinion via the Snowden revelations, one has to wonder how easy it would be to have a pool of a few hundred thousand e-mail addresses handy for influencing on line campaigning.

[2015-09-18 11:51:20] <Emmy B> I mean…if a mere MGT can create fake members for his forum 24/7 round the clock (maybe using fake e-mail addresses, maybe using special software to manipulate simple machines software set up (who knows?) imagine the opportunities for faking online petitions.

[2015-09-18 12:12:16] <voidiss> Oh-oh. I know which is the European partner: Res Publica

[2015-09-18 12:12:20] <voidiss> So apparently Avaaz has its roots both in MoveOn fundraising for Obama, and in ResPublica whose director has ties with Tories. Telling?

[2015-09-18 12:12:44] <voidiss> Anyway, completely agree with Emmy about the danger of such a platform.

[2015-09-18 12:13:15] <voidiss> And they’re dangerous because they’re not just corrupted and lying, they’re even completely incompetent in matter of security/technology and yet they were pretending to be able to offer a good and reliable supply of satellite phones to Syrians etc. Without caring about someone else’s life. But well, if they sell lists to US democrats, they’re not going to be held accountable for those possible lives losses, of course.

[2015-09-18 12:28:20] <Emmy B> {heh frontpagemag US perspective of what is left (eg Obama 2012) hilarious…}

[2015-09-18 12:28:56] <Emmy B> Excellent links Greta…reading <3

[2015-09-18 12:44:37] <Emmy B> Very good the frontpagemag article Greta, thank you so much for sharing.

[2015-09-18 12:46:36] <Emmy B> and phillip blond article reminds me this clip from ‘my fair lady’ from rags to riches…I hope you will find entertaining

[2015-09-18 13:03:07] <Emmy B> What are ‘think tanks’ Res Publica and Demos doing at Party Conferences? are they also lobbyists? who is funding these groups?

[2015-09-18 13:08:43] <Emmy B> Greta your articles take me further and further into ‘the business of politics’ it seems like a parallel political area exists of formulating ideas and delivering them, outside the more traditional democratic institutions who deliver political thinking, platforms and action, ie political parties, occupational unions, associations and professional institutes.

[2015-09-18 13:13:49] <Emmy B> It is a kind of elitist world of political formulation & engagement platforms financed by who is not exactly clear ‘I have raised gbp 1.5 mill in two weeks’ he says… but seeking to influence traditional institutions of policy making…hmm who would have thought Avaaz was the pseudo grass roots arm of such crypto lobbyist groups.

[2015-09-18 13:14:45] <voidiss> About “who funds Res Publica and Demos”, I’ve found this project:

[2015-09-18 13:15:26] <voidiss> I agree with you, Emmy. Also, despite the bias in the article, Frontpagemag highlighted that Avaaz founders were connected to Soros’ OSF. I’m not so well informed on OSF/Soros, but what I know is that they have a huge influence and they control many things in the world and, as some people like Glenn Beck think, also in politics… so it’s not reassuring.

[2015-09-18 13:15:52] <voidiss> Listen now to the clip!

[2015-09-18 13:22:37] <Emmy B> thanks for sharing, excellent work Greta, had no idea these sites existed, well look at that: ‘TaxPayers’ Alliance’ also an ‘E” like Res Publica and they are the horrid guys who are quoted recently by Daily Mail

[2015-09-18 13:23:30] <Emmy B> i believe, regarding taxpayers money spent on MetPol for the embassy siege…let me see..

[2015-09-18 13:28:02] <Emmy B> here:

[2015-09-18 13:28:21] <Emmy B> birds of a feather flock together

[2015-09-18 13:38:51] <voidiss> Oh, yes! I remember them. Well, it may explains many things. It would be useful if that site kept asking for these “transparency reports”, since it seems they have done only that 20 think tanks survey and stop.

[2015-09-18 13:42:48] <Emmy B> :-

[2015-09-18 13:42:53] <Emmy B> )

[2015-09-18 13:43:48] <Emmy B> thanks for the lovely chat! wonderful resources, learned lots x

[2015-09-18 13:44:47] <Emmy B> I will keep an eye on Avaaz in the future.

[2015-09-18 13:55:09] <voidiss> Thank you too for telling me about Avaaz’s misbehavior in first place! 🙂

[2015-09-18 14:13:29] <Emmy B> it is mostly through experience that we learn and it is more enjoyable and easy to learn when we share 🙂 x Goodnight!

[2015-09-18 14:15:03] <voidiss> ‘Night! 😀

[2015-09-18 14:50:19] <Emmy B> for another day maybe we can look at

[2015-09-18 15:19:55] <voidiss> Yes, good idea!

[2015-09-19 13:16:37] <Emmy B> Just noticed that wikileaks party twitter is managed by Omar Todd, great news!

[2015-09-20 05:15:04] <voidiss> Isn’t there a way to read this without the subscription?

[2015-09-20 06:01:47] <Emmy B> I haven’t been able to identify an alternative Greta.

[2015-09-20 06:02:27] <Emmy B> re Greek elections one poll predicts 40% abstension

[2015-09-20 06:02:52] <Emmy B> and this is a worry

[2015-09-20 06:07:29] <LibertarianLibrarian> Catching up… that’s great to know, though worrying, about Avaaz and MoveOn. I’d signed some of their petitions and now get spam email from them. Very annoying as I don’t support a lot it. Now I’m going to block them both.

[2015-09-20 10:15:48] <M> [Tweet] Very interesting.

[2015-09-20 11:09:50] <voidiss> Just the NYT who has ranted so much against the Sony release!

[2015-09-20 12:08:12] <noll> expect everyone has seen this:

[2015-09-20 13:36:42] <noll> whatever’s left of Syriza wins:

[2015-09-20 13:47:02] <Emmy B> 45% abstain – unprecedent

[2015-09-20 13:48:28] <Emmy B> GD some gains at 7% even after their leader publicly took political responsibility for the death of Fyssas this is terrible.

[2015-09-20 13:51:08] <Emmy B> Still relief, on my part, that ECB’s ‘coup’ that led to capitulation of syriza and its subsequent split did not lead to a situation where no clear winner

[2015-09-20 13:52:10] <Emmy B> would have deeply destabilised the country.

[2015-09-20 13:56:23] <noll> 45% abstain.. result is still ‘better’ than we feared. thank god GD aren’t just awful, but also politically inept, Syria crisis is giving them (& entire EU far-right) a golden opportunity w/ no end in sight.. agree, think ECB/ EU etc will step in if situ’ becomes catastrophic, after all they own the place. speaking of which – when will they step in to barricade that boarder, not that it’s possible.

[2015-09-20 13:58:57] <noll> far earlier than expected – here comes fortress EU. maybe Syriza were correct to stay w/i at any cost, considering future realities.

[2015-09-20 13:59:01] <Emmy B> the northern border was barricaded years ago I will share some links because this is going to be in the news soon. Winter is coming soon and ppl will reduce sea crossings

[2015-09-20 14:03:32] <Emmy B> Evros is natural river and the border with turkey, it has changed shape over the years so border has to be periodically re-agreed which is impossible considering the bad neighbour that Turkey is, in relation to challenging Greek sovereignty, sea air and land, and its invasion/occupation of Cyprus.

[2015-09-20 14:14:57] <Emmy B> Thraki or Thrace is the name of the Greek prefecture bordering Turkey. It is also home to the only Greek Muslim minority (about 120,000 ethnic Greek, Roma,Turkish, Pomak who are Muslims – the Greek gov does not recognise them as ethnic minorities only as a religious minority). This group of Muslims were excluded from the mutually organised ethnic cleansing of the (odious) 1923 Treaty of Lausanne (exchange population). Just as a note the 120,000 equivalent Greek Orthodox Istanbul minority also excluded by the same treaty is now down to 2,000 souls (eg see 1955 Istanbul progrom). These tit-bits are important.

[2015-09-20 14:17:36] <Emmy B> So the only land border with Turkey (due to the river) is about 10 kilometres and it was fenced off in 2012.

[2015-09-20 14:18:00] <Emmy B>

[2015-09-20 14:22:04] <Emmy B> note the reference to anti-personal mines

[2015-09-20 14:28:50] <Emmy B> The articles of course do not mention the drug trade that follows the same routes as the flow of migration. some who served their national service guarding the border pre-fence claim, Greek army (unofficially) had the policy of non interference with people smugglers as it was extremely dangerous. Guards were advised to not engage ‘duck and dive’.

[2015-09-20 14:30:22] <Emmy B> Some ppl still attempt to cross Evros by boat or swim, and many also die in the process.

[2015-09-20 14:32:32] <Emmy B> in Feb this year some voices were heard about allowing refugees to cross

[2015-09-20 14:33:19] <Emmy B> I would imagine that maybe Syriza’s re-election may follow a humane approach

[2015-09-20 14:34:05] <Emmy B> Frontex is in operation there, part of its role documenting people.

[2015-09-20 14:37:03] <Emmy B> If Oslo II (ppl who enter into EU must remain within country of entry) is over this is excellent news for Greece, it will gladly facilitate passage through Greece. If EU let’s Greece sink further and further under the burden that is when GD will double its %.

[2015-09-20 14:40:39] <Emmy B> Currently there are about 2000 refugees awaiting to cross into Greece in Adrianupoli (Turkish name Edirne)

[2015-09-20 15:02:13] <Emmy B> and a short video :

[2015-09-20 15:17:58] <noll> thanks Em, really informative. as mentioned, we’re concerned about this:

[2015-09-20 15:23:42] <noll>

[2015-09-20 15:34:09] <Emmy B> yes, interesting articles, we must be aware though of ideology been used to mask pure greed. Is climate change going to be merely used for further resource grabbing via a ‘we must manage resources better’ plot of international control? Certainly resources are finite but resourcefulness is not. We have seen medicine/technological advances lead to population explosion but also a widening of the standards of living further. Are we also going to see further restrictions on individual freedom in the name of climate change? it seems in our world every good thing (eg national security is supposedly a good thing) is turned on its head and becomes a nightmare. Upholding Human Rights internationally is a good thing but has been turned on its head to justify illegal invasion, even ethnic cleansing. Let’s hope Climate Change agenda stays on track and is not hijacked but the power hungry.

[2015-09-20 16:33:22] <noll> agree, think (w/o scrolling back for eternity) Wls mentioned climate-opportunism, guess Arctic policy’s visibility makes it a gd. example. anyway, to widen things out: that there is a climate crisis at all – w/ < 2°C *still achievable – is, as w/ the Arctic etc, a political choice. in this insane reality, just imagine the rest going forwards? agendas of greed & expediency followed by s̶o̶m̶e̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶e̶c̶h̶n̶o̶l̶o̶g̶i̶c̶a̶l desperate necessity? & we all know how bad the former often gets.

[2015-09-20 16:35:59] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-09-21 00:28:59] <Emmy B> hahaha

[2015-09-21 00:34:11] <Emmy B> With what ease people talk of bombing, it is extraordinary

[2015-09-21 01:25:08] <voidiss> Thank you for all these resources!

[2015-09-21 01:31:45] <voidiss> This

[2015-09-21 01:33:10] <voidiss> Not to think about the implication for Snowden of a possible conflict with Russia; he’d be target of more and more attacks and smears

[2015-09-21 01:33:16] <voidiss> in the Sunday Times style, just more ‘credible’, I suppose.

[2015-09-21 02:16:48] <voidiss> Abt Syriza election… I find everything really sad. Tsipras’s been re-elected w/ complete different purpose compared to his initial wish of

[2015-09-21 02:17:17] <voidiss> fighting back austerity, which now he has to implement. It’s tragic & telling of how expert the EU has been in forcing Greece to its knees.

[2015-09-21 02:17:22] <voidiss>

[2015-09-21 02:18:35] <voidiss> Like this quote, which underlines EU has lost its fear for Tsipras’ strong/not submissive line b/c it has actually been able to break it.

[2015-09-21 02:19:50] <voidiss> “There was talk of an austerity party breaking the mould of post “great recession” politics. EU political establishment looked on in horror.

[2015-09-21 02:20:05] <voidiss> The financial markets trembled. All the euphoria and most of the apprehension had disappeared by the time Greeks voted today.”

[2015-09-21 02:20:09] <voidiss>

[2015-09-21 02:36:46] <Emmy B> Yes that’s right, thanks Greta 🙂

[2015-09-21 06:23:32] <noll> no shit sherlock, w/ drip feeding this slow, why bother at all.

[2015-09-21 06:28:55] <Emmy B> How does this country keep this charade up?

[2015-09-21 06:37:07] <noll> not sure how to ans w/o sounding like misanthrope / great video (& Scahill finally noticed context exists!! – dig at his last film)

[2015-09-21 06:57:44] <Emmy B> I watched his documentary dirty wars here in London, it was good and an excellent panel with Tom Watson MP, Reprieve (if I am not mistaken) with K Hrafnsson moderated by J. Robinson lead to a discussion and Q&A

[2015-09-21 06:59:15] <Emmy B> ‘they are the war masters’ one said about the US in the film

[2015-09-21 07:10:03] <Emmy B> When did this come about?out of no where we have istanbul conference?

[2015-09-21 07:36:01] <noll> dirty wars is great, but would have been significantly better if briefly covered US interests in Gulf of Aden, tapestry of other national interests, how relates to historical/ cultural background. the simplistic “[b/c] they are the war masters” narrative doesn’t really cut it, esp. when material above is so informative/ important. obviously, a black hole of complexity looms, nevertheless, the all important ‘why’, the plot, if carefully managed could have taken 15 mins interspersed.

[2015-09-21 07:41:15] <noll> ie.

[2015-09-21 09:11:04] <voidiss> Hazelpress, finally someone has taken into consideration and made an analysis about the points you underlined in your article, i.e. the global economy costs of climate change. And the results of their research are quite scaring:

[2015-09-21 10:00:38] <noll> thanks Greta, they’re “conservatively” calculating cost of $1.98 trillion per year up until 2200. in 2013 global GDP was around 75.59. so that’s less than 2.6% global GDP per year. this is sea levels from 2°C projected to 2200:

[2015-09-21 10:23:07] <noll>

[2015-09-21 12:44:40] <noll> re WaPo, Stern, 2006 (he’s since said these figures are garbage, “it’s far, far worse”) gets close to making the calculation, but doesn’t bring it together (p. 10):

[2015-09-21 12:51:36] <WikiLeaks> Has anyone checked cables for the wilson plot?

[2015-09-21 13:02:20] <voidiss> No, I’ve never done it but I’m checking now — actually I don’t even know precisely the events about the Wilson plot, I’ll read about it. Do you mean it in connection to recent threats of a ‘coup’ against Corbyn?

[2015-09-21 14:47:29] <M> Not 100% sure what you’re looking for re Wilson, but maybe some of these may be of interest:

[2015-09-21 14:55:16] <voidiss> In this cable there are not reference to any kind of plot but there are many considerations about Wilson’s weak points and tensions between the party about this policy and his figure in general:

[2015-09-21 14:57:03] <M> Not 100% sure on what you’re looking for re Wilson, but some of these may be of interest:

[2015-09-21 14:59:04] <noll> hard to get exact dates. most sources say Jan & June 1974, some add July Sept.

[2015-09-21 15:07:23] <noll> Kissinger’s first stop in July:

[2015-09-21 15:32:35] <noll> 15 May on Wilson govt: “STRONG FRIENDS OF THE US”:

[2015-09-21 15:41:45] <Emmy B> In 1973 (before becoming PM) re-assures US regarding Nuclear Bases in the UK and position on Israel.

[2015-09-21 15:44:29] <noll> Rhodesia mention over & over again in US anaylsis of Wilson, 2 weeks before resignation:

[2015-09-21 15:44:54] <Emmy B> In 1976 after he resigned Wilson views on Labour extremists

[2015-09-21 15:46:29] <noll> more on that:

[2015-09-21 15:48:09] <noll> b/ground:

[2015-09-21 15:54:54] <Emmy B> six months before resignation Wilson gov discuss commitment to Defence budget, Northern Ireland and military procurement (easily a billion USD) from US

[2015-09-21 16:10:27] <Emmy B> This 1978 cable makes extensive reference to the conspiracy WL mentions, albeit via the review of ‘Pencourt Files’ book at the Mirror newspaper and advance publication of some chapters.

[2015-09-21 16:17:15] <Emmy B> But this cable also mentions wilson’s defence os Thorpe re MI5 paying Blackmail money to alleged lover scot? (mentioned later on the Pencourt Files above)

[2015-09-21 16:44:04] <Emmy B> On this cable from 1976 his official resignation reasons are accepted and confirmed, reveals his decision was taken Dec 1975, communicated to Queen then ?

[2015-09-21 17:14:22] <noll> ‘Pencourt File’

[2015-09-21 17:31:09] <noll>

[2015-09-21 17:58:45] <noll>

[2015-09-21 18:46:50] <noll> although similar to Watergate, more like UK’s Bay of Pigs/ Kennedy hit, & fittingly pathetic in comparison.

[2015-09-21 20:32:00] <noll> this seems about right:

[2015-09-22 02:56:04] <Emmy B> Wonderful resources! thank you 🙂 research note there is more than one tags in wl dot org re Wilson , Harold Wilson and James Harold Wilson, there might be more.

[2015-09-22 02:59:17] <Emmy B> gave Daily Mail some money today for all the piggate laughs 🙂 but it is something to consider that just as the Mirror chose to print the pencourt files, making them into ‘news’, so has the Daily mail, he has made Ashcroft’s story (which would never have had such reach or credibility within a wider audience) the ‘news’ of the day. There was a choice there.

[2015-09-22 03:06:32] <Emmy B> Maybe we can entertain ourselves with the idea that those with real power disliked Cameron’s Tory lead regarding the Corbyn election. His ‘honesty’ in branding him first a bofoon (pre-election)- a clear expression of arrogance of the powerful towards the commoners and then ‘a national security risk’ (after his election) giving legitimacy to all conspiracy claims that the elit subverts democracy, whilst such operation and efforts to divert democracy must always remain covert so that public claims of it can be dismissed as ‘conspiracy theories of the loonie party’ ie…blunders all around

[2015-09-22 03:09:56] <Emmy B> he’s been taken down a peg or two I am sure by his own who may now prepare the ground for a different Tory leader as a better oppositional match to Corbyn who may be seen as having a good chance with the electorate, despite whatever internal treason is planned from within the Labour party.

[2015-09-22 03:14:32] <Emmy B> It is this wind of change in a democracy that once going it is hard to curtail. See Tsipras winning again despite the gravest humiliation he endured, an internal split, accusations of betraying a referendum, a bankrupt country, and an uncontrollable wave of refugees adding to the already mature humanitarian disaster. hmmm just maybe?

[2015-09-22 03:24:18] <Emmy B> extremely difficult to consider who would be best to replace Cameron, the big challenge comes next year with a EU referendum, obviously the Country (the interests it represents) needs to stay in EU but with conditions. Corbyn may wish to stay but he left the question open ‘let’s see what the PM will bring at the table’ he could easily say ‘no’ based on these details (ie HR/ECHR issues etc) rather than general idea of leaving the EU and get away with it, not to mention that by doing so he will wipe off UKIP from many ex labour voters who will return to Labour where they most naturally belong. The Tories need a very skilled skipper to navigate through these perils and deliver the goods 🙂 watching with interest!

[2015-09-22 04:04:47] <voidiss> All very interesting material and reasonings, thank you.

[2015-09-22 04:04:49] <voidiss> I found a 1973 cable: Wilson pledged to start nazionalization/public ownership pushing party “whole further to left”

[2015-09-22 09:30:09] <voidiss> Very interesting article about what PigGate hides behind a dead pig, a dick and endless mockery against Cameron:

[2015-09-22 09:50:35] <noll>

[2015-09-22 09:59:11] <noll> 1.05.00 Chomsky on importance of Wls cables.

[2015-09-22 10:02:54] <noll> cites:

[2015-09-22 10:43:12] <Emmy B> @ Greta also remember if it is the state that collects the info and state representatives that blackmail and store the info then info collected on a person can be used for several generations, for people who wish to have a public life the transgressions of relatives whether criminal or otherwise all become live ammunition at a particular time in the future. In families whose history goes back centuries as this country boasts through the preservation of Aristocracy still active in public life through Monarchy and House of Lords as well as economic life, such power groups are entrenched deeply through marriage as well as interest as well as what your article describes.

[2015-09-22 10:48:56] <Emmy B> Betrayal of class is a notion that describes a moral duty to one’s group. Amongst his own Cameron will always have a place, he will not be socially excluded even if he loses PMship, it will become a footnote, history has forgiven worse. ‘They are all at it’

[2015-09-22 10:57:29] <Emmy B> @ H brilliant Chomsky! Thank you!

[2015-09-22 13:52:46] <WISE Up Action> [Tweet]

[2015-09-22 14:06:49] <voidiss> This mere fact tells us how “good” Avaaz is considered among the majority of people. As WL said, it’s great at getting involved with “mediagenic issues”.

[2015-09-22 14:06:52] <voidiss> About PigGate, thank you Emmy, I agree. It has somehow hilarious nuance, that precisely the storage of personal information is what in the end can pose a threat to govt members themselves. A sort of backlash. The sad thing is that they willingly accept the game in order to gain the position they want and the career they dream. So in the end it’s a useless backlash, it just gives some more hypocrisy.

[2015-09-22 18:15:39] <noll> the oops “if only”, “but too late” repeat, narrative in “The Plot Against Harold Wilson” is bullshit, as is the fucking idiotic assertion that HW & Marcia Williams didn’t realise they were being recorded.

[2015-09-23 02:17:24] <Emmy B> About Lord Ashcroft from 2014

[2015-09-23 02:20:37] <Emmy B> strong interests in Belize, political interference there, WL search has many references.

[2015-09-23 13:31:29] <Emmy B> [Tweet] LOL

[2015-09-24 05:31:18] <M> [Tweet] Def something fishy about WLF/Ball’s budding relationship.

[2015-09-24 05:31:45] <M> (fav of this tweet

[2015-09-24 06:50:40] <Emmy B> archived:

[2015-09-24 10:09:08] <LibertarianLibrarian> Ball seems rather sleepy to me. They’re going after Correa now, he’s too popular and independent. I suspect, howevet, that the Ecuadorians know better.

[2015-09-24 10:09:22] <LibertarianLibrarian> I mean sleazy not sleepy.

[2015-09-24 11:22:02] <M> [Tweet] Interesting.

[2015-09-24 11:44:17] <voidiss> More on US covert strategies to destabilize and thwart Latin America’s governments which don’t comply with their interests:

[2015-09-25 08:14:36] <Emmy B> Siggi convicted to three years prison

[2015-09-25 08:15:21] <Emmy B> fake forum FB post :

[2015-09-25 08:57:13] <LibertarianLibrarian> Glad to hear about Siggi’s conviction. Definitely a sick individual. I suspect his pal MGT is similar.

[2015-09-25 09:48:58] <WikiLeaks> Yes.

[2015-09-25 09:56:59] <Emmy B> what can we do?

[2015-09-25 12:57:38] <voidiss> I think MGT is slyer than Siggi, he manages to avoid direct criminal acts which can lead to charges, so he can keep going with his “job”.

[2015-09-25 22:04:06] <M> Relevant article: Dealing with online bullies is easy: Cyber-bullying versus Bullying

[2015-09-26 02:18:32] <Emmy B> Thanks for sharing! 🙂

[2015-09-26 06:43:43] <WikiLeaks> Oh dear. We keep reading ‘Cyber VAWG’ as ‘Cyber-Vag’.

[2015-09-26 07:00:41] <voidiss> LOOL! A so-called ‘Feminazi’ would start ranting against you now because omg, you’re objectifying women!

[2015-09-26 08:28:27] <M> They must have done that on purpose.

[2015-09-26 18:08:25] <voidiss> Very interesting article about climate change; the author finds a possible solution in a “global non-violent constitutional climate insurgency” — and actually I think that governments have come to the same conclusion and have understood that this would be the approach, that’s why they’re trying to “criminalize” environmentalism everywhere, to foil their major narrative of “legality of civil disobedience” from the start (Australia with #FreeKaren is just the latest example of a long list)

[2015-09-26 18:10:15] <voidiss> In theory this idea has a great potential, imo, but I can’t understand if it might actually work. Yes, on this issue there’s a tendency of populations to act more and on a vaster scale than on other issues, but it seems really difficult to coordinate all the singular movements on a global scale, and either that they would succeed in build the common belief that “governments are acting in an illegal way”. There are still too many people that doesn’t perceive climate change as an immediate threat, and moreover, the idea of the State being “inherently good” is still entrenched in the average people — in the end, it’s a concept that comes to us from antiquity. I think the process of perception reversal would take too long…

[2015-09-26 22:31:08] <Emmy B> interesting thinking Greta, thank you!

[2015-09-27 12:30:59] <voidiss> Prof. Marcello Ferrada de Noli on the JA case, specifically on Ny’s EAW

[2015-09-27 21:01:49] <M> Article claims Iranian man was moved under State Dept response to Cablegate, but now he is unable to get asylum in US due to officials being barred from reading WikiLeaks docs.

[2015-09-28 02:51:18] <Emmy B> Hi Greta, Falciani in this article

[2015-09-28 04:10:58] <voidiss> I’m still searching, but for now I haven’t found that excerpt – another one, but not that one.

[2015-09-28 06:27:35] <noll>

[2015-09-28 07:28:01] <WikiLeaks> Falciani palled up with the US

[2015-09-28 07:29:32] <WikiLeaks> It is not clear to us that giving European banking data to US agencies is an act that should be encouraged.

[2015-09-28 07:30:02] <WikiLeaks> After five years of doing that he started giving it to the press.

[2015-09-28 07:42:46] <noll>

[2015-09-28 07:45:11] <noll> [Tweet]

[2015-09-28 09:54:18] <voidiss> In the end I wasn’t able to find the excerpt in Italian, I’m sorry…

[2015-09-28 09:54:29] <voidiss> Today is the Right To Know Day, I’ve found this chart about ratings of different countries around the world on FOIAs legal framework:

[2015-09-28 10:03:43] <LibertarianLibrarian> Good grief, came across this

[2015-09-28 10:04:21] <LibertarianLibrarian> Cool, Greta, Happy Right To Know Day!

[2015-09-28 10:06:31] <LibertarianLibrarian> I’m taking a class on ‘Health in the Headlines” – I shouldn’t be shocked on how bad health journalism is, I knew that, but still… It remains stupefying. I co-teach a class on clinical research here in the Program in Public Health, the journalism students should be required to take it or something like it.

[2015-09-28 11:29:06] <voidiss> Oh, what you’re saying makes me remember that article about the experiment of fooling media with the “chocolate is good for your diet” claim. I was pretty shocked reading that the media actually believed it, things seem really bad in the health journalism sector.

[2015-09-28 11:29:30] <voidiss> By the way, Corbyn is definitely great.

[2015-09-28 11:35:35] <LibertarianLibrarian> Yes, health/medical journalism is in terrible shape, most journalists don’t have any understanding and assume that a PhD or University spokesperson knows everything and don’t question it, without looking into conflicts of interest or checking the actual data or studies for quality. Typical of modern journalism. Don’t question ‘authorities’, just go for the nice headline.

[2015-09-28 11:36:21] <LibertarianLibrarian> Corbyn does seem pretty cool. Wish we had someone like that running instead of the morons I’ve got to decide amongst.

[2015-09-28 11:40:48] <WikiLeaks> Corbyn is solid, his party is full of evil though.

[2015-09-28 11:43:02] <WISE Up Action> Hi Jenny, just on Trump, are the tactics he used on his Scottish property development known about in US?

[2015-09-28 11:44:57] <voidiss> About the similarities and differences between Corbyn and Sanders in the US, there is this interesting interview with Chomsky — which actually is broader, about movements of change and current capitalist system:

[2015-09-28 11:48:22] <LibertarianLibrarian> I don’t know about Trump’s Scottish property development, but I can believe just about anything about his business practices. He’s already falling; his early poll results were just surprise, celebrity name value, and irritation with typical politicians. No one wants another Clinton or Bush race. At least not anyone I know. But Trump’s a moron trading on celebrity status and even against the rest of the idiots running, he won’t actually get far. It’s still over a year to go.

[2015-09-28 11:50:45] <LibertarianLibrarian> There are things I like about Sanders and things that bother me. My parents will vote for him, though they don’t think he has a chance. I think they’re wrong, I think he could beat Clinton. I just wish he stood up better on a number of my key issues and I worry about how much some of his promises, if he got them through, would cost the taxpayer. I’m not yet convinced on him yet.

[2015-09-28 11:54:05] <LibertarianLibrarian> Actually, I feel about Sanders like I do about Rand Paul — sometimes they nail it, sometimes they really F* it up. Unless my party, Libertarians, come up with an actually strong candidate, no sign of that yet, I’ll probably vote for one of those two (probably a lesser of two evils vote again).

[2015-09-28 14:54:45] <Emmy B> Very interesting, frustratingly I cannot vote where I live in National elections only local and London Mayor but Corbyn’s ideas are so refreshing to hear.

[2015-09-28 14:55:39] <Emmy B> Cabledrummer is awl since 31st August!!! site down.

[2015-09-28 16:16:22] <Emmy B> James Ball article on Intelexit

[2015-09-28 17:00:15] <voidiss> Thanks, Emmy!

[2015-09-28 17:00:33] <voidiss> I’ve found another article about Corbyn/Sanders and US Democrats in general. It doesn’t give a nice image of Sanders:

[2015-09-29 01:05:15] <voidiss> Again the silly idea that activists like protesting for protest’s sake and simply to “feel good” opposing politics.

[2015-09-29 01:05:24] <voidiss> [Tweet] And of course Ball’s approval.

[2015-09-29 05:38:01] <Emmy B> Greek/Swedish corruption it takes 2 to dance

[2015-09-29 05:42:46] <Emmy B> So happy the story taro and I wrote about back in 2013 hoping it be picked by the Snowden revelations team has finally been reported on with all new evidence

[2015-09-29 05:43:25] <Emmy B> I note the Intercept also uses WL cables too in putting the jigsaw together.

[2015-09-29 11:37:07] <WISE Up Action>

[2015-09-29 14:33:53] <LibertarianLibrarian> If that really is Snowden starting a Twitter account and it appears real, that’s going to be very interesting to follow!

[2015-09-29 14:34:48] <LibertarianLibrarian> Oh, BTW, who is this David Barrow person who tweeted at me to use my own name, which is ridiculous because I am using my real name.

[2015-09-29 16:54:02] <Emmy B> Stay away from him Jenny, he is a very unwell person. x

[2015-09-29 16:58:58] <Emmy B> Great interview WL at the Book Launch, great positive atmosphere as well at Foyles 🙂

[2015-09-30 00:19:45] <Emmy B> Jenny Jones did ask the Mayor a Q on my behalf back in June, just got feedback, I will update my blog later today 🙂

[2015-09-30 04:41:44] <WikiLeaks> Great.